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View Poll Results: Which would you prefer for the Republic Gunship in SW:GB?
Gunship as the 2nd Republic unique unit 29 50.88%
Gunship as a toybox unit 12 21.05%
Gunship as a cheat unit 3 5.26%
I don\'t want the Gunship at all 13 22.81%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!
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Old 08-23-2002, 06:21 AM   #121
Darth Windu
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luke - the whole point about it being unique is that no-one else has it!

With the gunship, it is unique, and should be therefore be a republic unique unit. While it may be a simple reason, it is also the best. Ask yourselves the question, 'why are the destroyer droid, probot, airspeeder etc unique units?' the answer of course is that no other civ has anything like it, and this is most certainly true of the gunship.


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Old 08-23-2002, 10:20 AM   #122
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Windu - your initial post and subject header mentions nothing about SWGB2, nor do you mention it until like 20 posts down when you concede that LA may not add it this time around. Moreover, most people have been responding under the premise that the unit be included in GB. It's a little late to be assuming that everyone automatically knows whether you're talking add-on for GB or wish-list for GB2, especially since you've been framing most of your arguments around the specs of the AoK engine.

eizo - I'm not going to explain majority and plurality again. Just scroll back 30 or 40 posts.
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Old 08-24-2002, 01:07 AM   #123
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worf - the thing is, i want the gunship as a UU. Whether it is in GB or a possible GB2, i dont care, as long as it is a UU.


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Old 08-24-2002, 01:14 AM   #124
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ok...it's a good idea windu

the rebublic gunship

1 health
0 armor
1 damage
can carry only one guy
is a UU unit

hey you said as long as it was in there you wouldnt mind



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Old 08-24-2002, 11:04 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
ok...it's a good idea windu

the rebublic gunship

1 health
0 armor
1 damage
can carry only one guy
is a UU unit

hey you said as long as it was in there you wouldnt mind
I bet it would be his favorite unit too. Then when he loses he would wonder why 250 gunships lost to only 20 fighters.
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Old 08-24-2002, 02:31 PM   #126
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Originally posted by Tyrion and simwiz

ok...it's a good idea windu

the rebublic gunship

1 health
0 armor
1 damage
can carry only one guy
is a UU unit

If your reading my post Windu it means that you will know that i am joining the fight against a gunship UU. Besides i think you're beginning to be too obsessive about the matter. almost nobody supports you idea and most of us want you to just stop writing about it. And I will ask you this , why should only the republic have a armed transport? Ever played Tie Fighter ? Ever heard of the Stormtooper transport? If it's no then you should know that a stormtrooper transport is so kind of gunship( not the same but it has cannons and can shoot rockets)?


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Old 08-24-2002, 02:59 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
ok...it's a good idea windu

the rebublic gunship

1 health
0 armor
1 damage
can carry only one guy
is a UU unit

hey you said as long as it was in there you wouldnt mind
And a creation cost of only 1 carbon and 1 food, with a build speed of 1 second (with only 1 health, it doesn't take a long time to build it). I'd use it, depending on how fast it moves... Course, I wouldn't call it a gunship... more like Jango/Boba's backpack.

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Old 08-24-2002, 07:41 PM   #128
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LOL!

That was actually really funny!
Busted out loud at that one...
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Old 08-24-2002, 10:23 PM   #129
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While we're at it

The Empire should have a new Unique Unit, Boba Fett! It's exactly like a Bounty Hunter, only except it's not! Coz you see Boba Fett is not really like a bounty hunter, we see Boba in the movie flying the Slave I, but we never see IG-88 or any of the other bounty hunters flying a ship! So they must not have a ship since I didn't see it in the movie! So that makes Boba Fett different and since he didn't work for any of the other civs he should be a UU and the only civ to get another UU added.

And to make him different than a normal bounty hunter, he should have like +30 damage vs. Jedi and be invulnerable to laser troops, and he should have a jetpack upgrade you can research that will allow him to walk and be ground, or fly and be air! And when he's air he can attack both air and ground and destroy buildings in 2 hits, but when he's on the ground he can't hit buildings but he can like tie up laser troops with his grappling rope so they can't attack anybody. And I think LucasArts should figure out how to balance it coz I can't be bothered with how the game plays, it is more important to me that it is identical to the movies in every way.

So that's my new Empire UU idea. I am going to create 5 more threads talking about what a great idea this is, and beg DMUK to make it a forum poll, and email LucasArts 5 times every day until they read it and find out what a l33t idea I have and add it to the next expansion, or SWGB 24, just so long as they put it in there.

If anyone is this post is just for and so don't get or like a drugged-up : or you'll end up like or even and the most you'll get from me is and
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Old 08-24-2002, 10:53 PM   #130
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In respect to the gunship as a UU, ask yourselves the following questions.

1. Why is the Airspeeder a Rebel UU?
2. Why is the A-wing a Rebel UU?
3. Why is the Probot an Empire UU?
4. Why is the Dark Trooper an Empire UU?
5. Why is the Destroyer Droid a TF UU?
6. Why is the Royal Crusader a Naboo UU?
7. Why is the Fambaa shield generator a Gungan UU?
8. Why is the Geonosian Warrior a Confederacy UU?
9. Why is the Jedi Starfighter a Republic UU?
10. Why are the Confederacy animals UU's?

and finally
11. Why shouldn't the Gunship be a Republic UU?

I honestly do not see why you guys are opposing the gunship as a Republic Unique Unit. Something 'unique' is, in this game, something that no other civ has. This applies to all of the previous UU's, and it also applies to the Gunship.


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Old 08-24-2002, 11:13 PM   #131
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Newsflash Darth Windu! The republic already has the gunship! Do you know why it's unique even though it's a generic fighter? Because no other civ has it's art! So be happy that you can even see a gunship on your screen!
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Old 08-25-2002, 08:45 AM   #132
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A gunship sounds cool but u already have 1....... i reckon to make it better in UU is to make the advanced fighter for the republic have missile capability after all we did see it in ep 2! just it takes a long time to reload. In my opinion naboo shud get upgraded i mean they shudnt be that crap!! they shud have better men at least and there UU should be the royal starship cos i love the design of it the empire shud not be able to have assault mechs! but instead have the AT-AT as there UU which has 25 attack as standard 500 HP and decent armour +it can be upgraded. And it wont be unbalanced ppl cos other civs qud still be able to build assault mechs. I would also like to see the airspeeder have a tow cable!


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Old 08-25-2002, 01:54 PM   #133
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Re: While we're at it

Quote:
Originally posted by W0RF
The Empire should have a new Unique Unit, Boba Fett! It's exactly like a Bounty Hunter, only except it's not! Coz you see Boba Fett is not really like a bounty hunter, we see Boba in the movie flying the Slave I, but we never see IG-88 or any of the other bounty hunters flying a ship! So they must not have a ship since I didn't see it in the movie! So that makes Boba Fett different and since he didn't work for any of the other civs he should be a UU and the only civ to get another UU added.

And to make him different than a normal bounty hunter, he should have like +30 damage vs. Jedi and be invulnerable to laser troops, and he should have a jetpack upgrade you can research that will allow him to walk and be ground, or fly and be air! And when he's air he can attack both air and ground and destroy buildings in 2 hits, but when he's on the ground he can't hit buildings but he can like tie up laser troops with his grappling rope so they can't attack anybody. And I think LucasArts should figure out how to balance it coz I can't be bothered with how the game plays, it is more important to me that it is identical to the movies in every way.

So that's my new Empire UU idea. I am going to create 5 more threads talking about what a great idea this is, and beg DMUK to make it a forum poll, and email LucasArts 5 times every day until they read it and find out what a l33t idea I have and add it to the next expansion, or SWGB 24, just so long as they put it in there.
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:14 AM   #134
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Windu, I am not opposed to the idea of having a true gunship but as long as every civs get some kind of gunship for them. The other unique units did not unbalance the game because they were not that powerful(except the destroyer droid but they changed that in clone campaigns)

[I]Originally posted by Darth Windu[I]

Quote:
In respect to the gunship as a UU, ask yourselves the following questions.
Quote:
1. Why is the Airspeeder a Rebel UU?
Quote:
2. Why is the A-wing a Rebel UU?
Quote:
3. Why is the Probot an Empire UU?
Quote:
4. Why is the Dark Trooper an Empire UU?
Quote:
5. Why is the Destroyer Droid a TF UU?
Quote:
6. Why is the Royal Crusader a Naboo UU?
Quote:
7. Why is the Fambaa shield generator a Gungan UU?
Quote:
8. Why is the Geonosian Warrior a Confederacy UU?
Quote:
9. Why is the Jedi Starfighter a Republic UU?
Quote:
10. Why are the Confederacy animals UU's?
1. Because they need an anti-mech unit 'cause their own mechs are not strong enough.
2.I have no idea why they put it there.Probably for a fast aircraft.
3.Lowcost scout with better LOS.Besides, you're not going to win a war with probot!
4.Who knows why? I think they suck because they're only good against troopers.
5.They just needed a big bad anti-trooper shielded unit and it does not unbalance the game because they cost 50 carbon and 150 nova.
6.Look at number one.
7.For some defensive purpose.
8.Look at number4.
9.Who knows why?Because the jedis needed a fighter of course.
10.The geonosian warrior was not enough...


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Old 08-26-2002, 10:23 AM   #135
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luke - you completely missed the point i was trying to make. The asnwer to those questions should be 'because they are unique'. No other civ in the game has anything like them, which is why they are UU's. The Gunship is a weapon unique to the Republic, so why shouldn't they get it as a UU?


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Old 08-26-2002, 11:08 AM   #136
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It already exists in the game as a generic fighter. THAT is its presence in the game. There's no need to reinvent the wheel just to make sure every unit in every movie is in the game in exactly the way it was utilized.

What you seem to fail to understand is that these people don't hate the gunship. They simply happen to think the game IS FINE THE WAY IT IS! Or at least as well as can be expected, given the circumstances.
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:19 AM   #137
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Then I ask you something

The AT-AT is unique to the Empire
The X-Wing is unique to the Rebels
The N-1 is unique to the naboo
The MTT is unique to the Trade Federation
The AT-ST is unique to the Empire
The AAT is unique to the Trade Federation

Did you ever see anybody else using these weapons?(except Chewbacca and his captured AT-ST)
Then why if everybody has an Adv Fighter, an assault mech, etc. and we know that it is unique to the civ (jeez, ever see any gungan piloting an X-Wing or an AT-AT?!) why should the republic be the only civ to get an gunship or some kind of? They only put one or two unique units to make the game a little funnier that's all. And look at all of them. Their not "armed transports shooting big bad rockets and blowing everything in their paths". They are not at all too strong and that's the point. Your gunship would be too strong!!!!!


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Old 08-26-2002, 01:33 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Then I ask you something

The AT-AT is unique to the Empire
The X-Wing is unique to the Rebels
The N-1 is unique to the naboo
The MTT is unique to the Trade Federation
The AT-ST is unique to the Empire
The AAT is unique to the Trade Federation
Thank you! Maybe now Windu will understand that in a game with generic units, none of these are UU's, just like the Gunship isn't a UU.

Though it's very likely he will miss the point entirely. Again.
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Old 08-26-2002, 01:42 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
I honestly do not see why you guys are opposing the gunship as a Republic Unique Unit.
I honestly do not see why you continue your inane drivel about how the Gunship would be such a great UU. It wouldn't be. It has no place in gameplay, so kindly shut your trap about it. Please? Many people are tired of hearing about it.
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Old 08-26-2002, 04:44 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Their not "armed transports shooting big bad rockets and blowing everything in their paths". They are not at all too strong and that's the point. Your gunship would be too strong!!!!!
I don't know what version of the gunship you're talking about, but it's certainly not the one Windu (or myself for that matter) am proposing. We're totally against turning the gunship into a miniturized version of the air cruiser... that's NOT what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be a transport that can provide air cover.

While we're at it, why should the AT-AT be the only assault mech to attack air? Because it creates some diversity between the civs and henceforth affects gameplay. THAT is why the gunship would be limited to the Republic...

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Old 08-26-2002, 11:04 PM   #141
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I've got a little math for you guys. Estimate your IQ (dont flatter yourself Windu). Now, for every time you posted on this thread, subtract 1 point (2 points if your post was in favor of the gunship UU). This is your current IQ. That puts many forumers (Windu, Viceroy, ect.) in the negatives.

Windu:
1. Strong anti-mech for those weak in mechs.
2. Rebel air superiority
3. So they dont tie up mech factories with scouts
4. Help the emps lacking troopers
5. Beef up the TF mech arsenal
6. Naboo needs to make up for little heavies somehow.
7. Because it doesnt fit anywhere else and was a good idea
8. Trooper support
9. It was in the movies and gives the reps much needed recon
10. LA had a brain fart. You seem to have alot of them too.
11. There are 5 threads chaulk full of reasons. Take your pick. Also, nobody gives a damn.

WORF, simwiz, etc. He will never learn.


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Old 08-26-2002, 11:12 PM   #142
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I agree SithMaster. At first I opposed Windu's idea for the gunship, complete with reasons. At this point my interest in this thread has devolved to the point where I no longer have any interest in entertaining his drivel any longer.

My perspective on this thread is now:
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Old 08-27-2002, 09:18 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
I've got a little math for you guys. Estimate your IQ (dont flatter yourself Windu). Now, for every time you posted on this thread, subtract 1 point (2 points if your post was in favor of the gunship UU). This is your current IQ. That puts many forumers (Windu, Viceroy, ect.) in the negatives.
Should people deduct 3 points for every time someone said something that was personally insulting...?

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Old 08-27-2002, 09:38 AM   #144
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Kryllith,allright I exagerate a little bit but don't get me wrong 'cause I want a gunship but not as UU. The republic is already strong enough. They have the most powerful jedis, the second best air force and the fastest production of troopers. I think that gives them a big advantage over many other civ(I mean they have good air and ground forces). I don't see why the republic needs another UU (unlike the rebels, the empire and the confederacy, a gunship UU would give them a huge advantage on everybody else, what I mean is you just won't win a war with probots, a-wings and animals while you could possibly win with gunships UU that can also carry a small amount of troopers).


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Old 08-27-2002, 11:04 AM   #145
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sithmaster, you dont think an air speeder is an anti-mech?
all that thing is good for is ripping mechs.
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:19 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Kryllith,allright I exagerate a little bit but don't get me wrong 'cause I want a gunship but not as UU. The republic is already strong enough. They have the most powerful jedis, the second best air force and the fastest production of troopers. I think that gives them a big advantage over many other civ(I mean they have good air and ground forces). I don't see why the republic needs another UU (unlike the rebels, the empire and the confederacy, a gunship UU would give them a huge advantage on everybody else, what I mean is you just won't win a war with probots, a-wings and animals while you could possibly win with gunships UU that can also carry a small amount of troopers).
I don't mind the Republic being the only civilization to have the gunship, but I would like more diversity in the other civilizations as well. I'm all for having the other civilizations receive more in the way of UU's or in modifications of current units to make them unique (like giving the confed AAM the ability to fire at mechs/heavies). I do agree that by just giving the Republic another UU it could unbalance the game. Of course, it depends on how much is done to counterbalance the Republic strength.

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Old 08-27-2002, 11:35 AM   #147
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can't argue with that Kryllith It has nothing to do with what i am saying im just trying out smilies


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Old 08-28-2002, 05:26 PM   #148
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Quote:
Should people deduct 3 points for every time someone said something that was personally insulting...?
I was going to do that but that would put us all in the negatives and that kinda ruins the point.

pbguy, i was a bit brief i know but i meant that the rebs get a strong anitmech unit cause they lack strong mechs.


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Old 08-28-2002, 08:25 PM   #149
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i dunno... i kinda thought the air speeder WAS a strong anti-mech. it's avg vs other air and ground units, but it cuts through mechs each. ever try them vs heavy assaults?
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Old 08-29-2002, 02:18 AM   #150
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*smacks self in head for not reading Sithmaster_821's post right...*
NOW i get it... DUH...
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Old 08-29-2002, 05:11 AM   #151
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I am still not seeing any good argument apart from the standard 'it would make the republic too powerful'. Do you people not trust lucasarts to balance the unit?

Conversely, instead of making the gunship a UU, make the canon gunship the advanced fightert instead of the fast fighter, and give it the ability to carry troops, just as the AT-AT can fire at air.

The gunship is unique to the republic. There has never been anything else in the star wars universe that has the abilities of the gunship, or anything like it, so if it can be balanced, why not make it a UU for the republic?


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Old 08-29-2002, 11:05 AM   #152
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You haven't seen any good arguments against the UU gunship?!?!?

How about:
1). The artwork already exists as a fighter
2). There is no NEED for the addition of another UU
3). Adding a UU of this caliber would seriously unbalance the gameplay, and a lot of work would be required to accout for it
4). Here is a short list of units that are unique in the Star Wars universe, but exist as generic units in the game:
X-Wing
Y-Wing
AT-PT
AT-ST (which is listed as a Mech Destroyer even tho in the movies they are really only attacking troops)
AT-TE
STAP
Bongo
TIEs of every sort

The thing you don't seem to understand about forensic debate is that you do not make some andom suggestion and dare us to prove you wrong. For an addition of this magnitude, the burden of proof is on YOU to tell us why it's a good idea, how to implement it, how to balance out the civ, and why things aren't fine just the way they are (hint: things ARE fine just the way they are).
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Old 08-29-2002, 11:13 AM   #153
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If you're so smart windu why don't YOU balance it out for us right here right now!


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Old 08-29-2002, 11:03 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
If you're so smart windu why don't YOU balance it out for us right here right now!
Because he can't!


Quote:
Windu
Do you people not trust lucasarts to balance the unit?
Quite honestly, if they actually listen to a moron like you, then no, I do not trust them to balance the unit.

Windu, people are posting very intelligent comments and you just reply with your same old "it's unique, it's unique!" crusade.

Please, just stfu.


Quote:
Kryllith
Should people deduct 3 points for every time someone said something that was personally insulting...?
I guess I'm in the negatives then


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
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Old 09-04-2002, 03:31 AM   #155
DK_Viceroy
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Don't even think about putting me in the same catagory as that loony gunship addicted

I am 100 % against the gunship beig anything but the fast fighter as it is and if anyone thinkis i am anything like thet loony windu think again if we're gonna put in the gunship why do't we give the empire the ability to make death stars and star destroyers eh? that's what your idea about the gunship is like LA can't put in a hyped up fighter that fires about 5 rockets and then runs out of tehm the game does need a couple of tweeks i admi but NO NEW UNITS like giving AAT's the ability to fire at air targets to like in ep 1 just unique techs for things like this and Hailfire Droids firing at ground targets maybe rebel alliance getting B-Wing research they are already in game they are toybox units they maybe should be abnle to be built by the rebels just little things to make the game more like the movies











LISTEN WINDU WE DON@T WANT THE GUNSHIP IT IS NOT GOING IN THE GAME EVER GET IT THRU UR THICK SKULL NO NOEW UNITS
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Old 09-04-2002, 11:16 AM   #156
Kryllith
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First off, your "we", regardless of what you may think, does not speak for everyone on these forums. I'm interested in the gunship provided that any advantages that it may provide are balanced out (btw, I have noted a number of potential ways for balancing it, so those of you who complain that it can't be balanced should go back and reread old posts).

Second, aside from the occasional presentation of a highly overpowered ship-of-the-gods (which have generally been ignored, thankfully), no one is looking to produce some uberfighter in the gunship. In fact, Windu's initial presentation of the gunship was to tone down it's combat abilities to allow for it's troop-carrying capabilities. The closest I'd personally would consider it having fighter capabilities is to simply allow the current "gunship" (advanced fighter) to carry troops (countered by a limitation in amount and style of units it can carry, as well as a limiting of amount/style of units the regular transport can carry. And the reason for proposing this change would be that it wouldn't require the creation of an entirely new unit. If a new unit were created, it would most likely have slower speed than a fighter, less AA attack, similar air-to-ground, and no shields. It would have more hps then the fighter, say maybe 70-75, and would be more resistant to AA (like the current transport is) but relatively vulnerable to fighters.

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Old 09-04-2002, 01:01 PM   #157
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The twofold problem with your idea:

1). it's based on the use of the fast fighter, which is a generic unit, and as far as I know, the engine won't allow you to alter the generics that drastically as to allow fighters to carry troops

2). your idea also doesn't coincide with Windu's lone voice crying in the wilderness that the gunship is not a fighter, but more like an assault helicopter (oh which there is of course no equivalent in SWGB) and thus should be a UU.

Gameplay > Realism. The point of the game is NOT to approximate the Star Wars universe, but to produce an RTS with people/places/things you might recognize from the movies, and a variety of different civs so that people could stage epic Rebel vs Empire or Repub vs. Confed battles. The immense wealth and variety of characters, races and ships/vehicles in the Star Wars universe make it next to impossible to portray them all in a realistic sense, much less with respect to their relative strengths/weaknesses (e.g. an RTS Death Star would never be blown up by a single X-Wing).

Put more simply, be glad the art's in the game, and enjoy the game for what it is, Star Wars art attached to Age of Kings.
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Old 09-04-2002, 01:26 PM   #158
Kryllith
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Since I've not had a hand in coding the game, I don't know how easy it is to make one unit capable of carrying another. For all we know, it might simply require the adjusting of a few variables. It's obvious that some play in generic units is capable, or the AT-AT wouldn't have been able to be upgraded to AA (and maybe it would require an upgrade to make the current fast fighter capable of carrying troops). Since I don't know though, there's no need to cease speculating the possibilites.

As for it being a helicopter rather than a fighter, yeah that pretty much require the creation of another unit.

As for gameplay vs. realism, I'm for both. The reason I like the idea of the gunship is because it throw a wrench into gameplay by forcing whoever plays the Republic to deal with the changes made to the way transporting troops works. Quite frankly, if it didn't, I wouldn't be the least bit interested in seeing the change. Will it work effectively? *shrugs* Who knows? Maybe LucasArts has already tried something similar and decided not to use it... or not. I'd like to keep the possibilities open though.

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Old 09-04-2002, 01:39 PM   #159
KoL ShadowJedi
 
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If we go for "realism" from the star wars universe, EVERY SINGLE UNIT SHOULD FIRE AT AIR

Oh cool my second post i believe on this thread

Im not a dumb **** like windu Oh dang does that take 3 points off?


only a fully trained jedi with the force as his ally will conquer - Jedi Master Yoda
TO KNOW THE LIGHT, YOU MUST SEE THE DARK.
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Old 09-04-2002, 01:57 PM   #160
Sithmaster_821
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Kryllith, what you ask for would require an insane amount of programming in the patch, not to mention another intense roud of balancing. One of the reasons the a-wing was added to the game was to differeniate rebs and reps, but giving the reps an air bonus added on to what they already have is just shooting yourself in the foot.

KoL, come on, post more. That way you'll be stupid with the rest of us.


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Albert Einstein
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