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View Poll Results: Which would you prefer for the Republic Gunship in SW:GB?
Gunship as the 2nd Republic unique unit 29 50.88%
Gunship as a toybox unit 12 21.05%
Gunship as a cheat unit 3 5.26%
I don\'t want the Gunship at all 13 22.81%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: A Republic Gunship we can all live with!
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Old 09-04-2002, 04:43 PM   #161
Kryllith
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And for that matter, pretty much anything with missiles would be able to fire against ground targets. I'm for diversity though, not for making all of the civs capable of doing the same thing. As for the gunship, I really don't expect to see it in GB, in a new expansion pack or GB 2 perhaps (should LA decide to make either) but not as it currently sits. I definitely wouldn't expect them to do it just for a patch.

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Old 09-04-2002, 07:21 PM   #162
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Like some one else said ''make the gunship ADV Fighter being able to carry troops''. It could work but here are some suggestion for balancing it out:

-Carry one laser trooper and laser trooper only.
-Bomber speed
-No shields 60 HP

For once I agree....but for how long....


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Old 09-05-2002, 07:31 AM   #163
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luke - you cant edit the adv fighter away from being a fighter to give it partial gunship abilites, that would unbalanced the game.

The gunship plan is for SW:GB 2, hopefully being put in as a Republic Unique Unit.


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Old 09-05-2002, 07:40 AM   #164
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sithmaster - it would further differentiate the Rebel's and Republic. The A-wing is a high speed interceptor, the Gunship is a fairly slow assault transport.

If you want to see examples of what im talking about in the real world look up the Mi-24 (Gunship) and MiG-25/31 (A-wing)

The A-wing would be used for air superiority, while the Gunship would be used to assist ground forces.

PS: the term 'gunship' is used to describe every attack helicopter in existance, hence the term 'helicopter gunship'.


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Old 09-05-2002, 12:02 PM   #165
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darth i think its time for u to stfu


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Old 09-05-2002, 12:57 PM   #166
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What if The clones with those huge guns in the movie cost 10 nova and 30 food and the republic gunship and the other ship that carries the mechs were created out of a new building like an advanced air base and it costs 100 ore and 200 carbon to make and the Gunship costs 250 nova and 250 food and it can carry 10 troopers (only troopers) and it shoots a bunch of shots then takes anout 10 seconds to recharge and its a building eater and troops eater and the other air units can carry 4 strike mechs or 2 mech destyoers or 1 assalt mech and has alot of hp but no attack
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Old 09-05-2002, 01:06 PM   #167
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LOL, army, mate... that means imperials should have Lambda shuttle (same specs as gunship) and an advanced lambda ship like the same as the other one

Rebs shud get lambda - as if you have played the games they have em too and shud get sommet similar to the other thing

and so on..

Otherwise the republic will win all the time


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Old 09-05-2002, 01:52 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
-Carry one laser trooper and laser trooper only.
-Bomber speed
-No shields 60 HP

For once I agree....but for how long....
Unfortunately the side effect to this is the ruin of the Republic... their air will be slower, and unshielded (extra hp will not compensate for a loss of shields). Their air will be "bad", giving them only one real strength, Jedi.


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:22 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by simwiz2


Unfortunately the side effect to this is the ruin of the Republic... their air will be slower, and unshielded (extra hp will not compensate for a loss of shields). Their air will be "bad", giving them only one real strength, Jedi.
Course, if the Republic was the only civ to have Masters then it could just convert the opposing fighters. Seriously though, if the fighter was converted to be able to carry troops (instead of making a UU gunship) I'd just go ahead and leave its stats as it is already. Sure it will have shields, but it woule also be more suspectible to AA (with fighter stats rather than transports, since transports are more resistant to AA). Only thing I'd probably do is lower the amount regular transports could carry, and perhaps limit their carrying to non man-sized units (mechs, heavies, mounties, etc). I'd have the gunship capable of carrying 2 man-size units, be they laser/grenade/AA troopers, jedis, medics, or workers.

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Old 09-05-2002, 05:22 PM   #170
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Simwiz

Yes it does. But then I don't something able to end this discussion. Maybe it will create a downside to the republic but i said no shields for the gunship meaning that jedi starfighters and bombers will still get shields.


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Old 09-06-2002, 08:51 AM   #171
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Quote:
From the Star Wars databank
The Republic attack gunship was known in production as the "Jedi attack helicopter," clearly indicating its design roots. In much the same way that Director George Lucas used archival footage of World War II dogfights as inspiration for the starfighter battles in the original Star Wars, he turned to news footage of helicopter-troop deployment to help envision the clone trooper's gunships. The hunchback ****pit configuration was influenced by the the Russian Hind helicopter design.
More evidence of my theory...


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Old 09-06-2002, 09:45 AM   #172
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Nobody cares that it was designed to look like a helicopter, Windu. ATATs were designed after cows and ATSTs were designed after chickens. Maybe the empire should be able to hunt ATATs and ATSTs for food because they look like farm animals.

The reps air, compared to other civs, is very balanced right now.


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Old 09-06-2002, 09:50 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu


More evidence of my theory...
What theory? AFAIK no one has said that the Gunship did not exist, or that its design did not resemble a helicopter. It was still used similar to the way fighters would be used.

You have an idea that the Gunship should be a UU, but your evidence does not support that idea. It supports that the Gunship existed in the movies and that its design is similar to a helicopter. I would assume most people here already know that.


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
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Old 09-06-2002, 10:18 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
Nobody cares that it was designed to look like a helicopter, Windu. ATATs were designed after cows and ATSTs were designed after chickens. Maybe the empire should be able to hunt ATATs and ATSTs for food because they look like farm animals.
Sounds like a good idea! Imagine how much food you could get from an ATAT... provided the cargo bay is loaded with food that is. Maybe they should allow salvaging in the game if you have workers scrounging for parts. Of course, people who are anti-turtle probably wouldn't care for this since technically the expanders would just be bringing the turtlers resources in the form of units...

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Old 09-06-2002, 09:36 PM   #175
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Lightbulb

Hey DarthMaulUK, could you close this thread too? Please?



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Old 09-06-2002, 11:11 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
Maybe the empire should be able to hunt ATATs and ATSTs for food because they look like farm animals.


Just say no to Gunship UU!
...and all the rest of the stupid ideas by a certain nameless member.
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Old 09-07-2002, 12:44 AM   #177
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What im saying is that it is not a fighter. Sure, it has anti-air ability, so does the Mi-24 Hind, but their main role is to land troops into battle, and then prodive armed support for those troops, that is the whole idea of the gunship.

A fighter is an aircraft designed to gain and hold air superiority over the battlefield, nothing more, nothing less.


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Old 09-07-2002, 05:28 AM   #178
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sigh....

then in theory, it would get slaughtered by fighters... so why bother having it? use a transport and guard it with fighters. DUH



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Old 09-07-2002, 03:24 PM   #179
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Even more simple...
Give the current transports defensive weapons...
The medium transport has some defensive weapons...
We don't see them...


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Old 09-08-2002, 01:06 PM   #180
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It didnt seem like the gunships were giving cover. It looked like they plopped down a couple guys and left to go kick some droid butt. Also, most of the clones came from those big transport thingies, and the gunships acted as armed gaurds for the transports (see pbguy's post).
Quote:
A fighter is an aircraft designed to gain and hold air superiority over the battlefield, nothing more, nothing less.
Which is essensially what the gunship did. This thread desparately needs closing.


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Old 09-09-2002, 12:08 PM   #181
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Way I saw it, they came in with cover fire, dropped off clone troopers, picked up Jedi and then moved elsewhere. Then they served a variety of functions, be it attacking ships that were trying to take off or tranporting Jedi/Troopers to various parts of the battleground...

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Old 09-09-2002, 12:10 PM   #182
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For crying out loud

For a ship whose primary job is to land troops, the Republic ship sure had a lot of lasers and rockets (well, two rockets)

You need to stop comparing the republic ship to real-life military vehicles, not because it is inaccurate, but becaue it is irrelevant. What freaking difference does it make if it acts like a fighter or a helicopter or a hot-air balloon? SWGB doesn't have helicopters and hot-air balloons and Romulan warbirds and Fokker triplanes. They have fighters. So, the Republic has a ship that shoots things? We'll make it a fighter!!! DUH!!!!!

Ships that primarily shoot things are fighters. Ships that primarily land troops are transports. Why should LA retool the entire Republic for a ship that shoots things and lands troops, when they already have ships that can do each of these things?

DMUK, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!!!
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Old 09-09-2002, 03:58 PM   #183
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Yeah DMUK close this thread, WORF, it fires 2 missiles at a time, it has a lot more than that, unless u meant what i just said


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Old 09-09-2002, 04:22 PM   #184
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Both the Mech Destroyer and the Assault Mech fire and carry units (granted, the MD can only carry 1). Are they attack units or transports...

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Old 09-09-2002, 05:00 PM   #185
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The AT-AT transporting units is different.First it can't fly and second there isn't much of a use to it. My point is it can't fly and thus cannot infiltrate a base and unload his troopers(well not by air and it's too slow anyway to infiltrate...).


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Old 09-09-2002, 07:47 PM   #186
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Ditto, what luke said. Assault mechs are too slow to be used as transports, so i use them as safe havens for injured units.


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Old 09-10-2002, 04:42 AM   #187
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oh for the love of god, someone PLEASE close this thread!!!



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Old 09-10-2002, 09:25 AM   #188
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The snowspeeder fly's and shoots, why isnt it the Rebel fighter?
The A-wing fly's and shoots things, why isnt it the Rebel fighter?
The Destroyer Droid is a good anti-infantry ground unit, why isnt it the TF strike mech?

Because they are unique, ie no other civ has an equivalent, hence the term Unique Unit. Now exactly what unit in Star Wars has the same abilities as the Gunship and the same role of Assault Transport? None, and that is the best reason as to why it should be a unique unit.


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Old 09-10-2002, 10:23 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
The AT-AT transporting units is different.First it can't fly and second there isn't much of a use to it. My point is it can't fly and thus cannot infiltrate a base and unload his troopers(well not by air and it's too slow anyway to infiltrate...).
No, but it could keep troops protected while it laid down cover fire, then drop them off the way the gunship would.

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Old 09-10-2002, 10:37 AM   #190
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KOL - when I said that it fired two rockets I was commenting on the gunshipin the movie that only shot down a few confeds, then "Destroy Dooku" "We're out of rockets!" Gee how convenient, I guess we need a swordfight now.

Windu - The Republic already have a UU, the Starfighter. The thing that you don't understand is that you have to convince us that it's worth changing the gunship FROM a Fast Fighter TO a UU, replace the art for the FF, and rebalance the whole civ to include a unit that doesn't really do anything that other units don't already do for them. The burden of proof is ON YOU, and you haven't come CLOSE to justifying the time, cost, and effort.

And so, I renew my plea, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!
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Old 09-10-2002, 01:42 PM   #191
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Windu may say what he wants on this matter, but personally I've only to say this:

I've given means for balancing it; I've given reasons for change (affecting changes in strategy and gameplay); as for the third, numerous unique units are simply other units with minor changes. How much different is there between the way a Strike Mech and a Dark Trooper work, or Strike Mech and a Destroyer Droid, an Advanced Mounted Trooper and a Royal Crusader (or even a Berserker), or others. There are some differences in power (shielding of the Crusader and HHD, regen for the berserker, anti-mech bonus for the snow speeder, range for the a-wing, etc), but these differences are not so vast that they qualify these units as irreplaceable. Heck, the Gungan's unique is the only one that comes to mind as being truly unique (even though the Jedi Starfighter gets some jedi powers) since no other unit can generate a shield; the others are just modified upscaled version of other units.

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Old 09-10-2002, 02:01 PM   #192
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well, the air speeder is like a flying mech destroyer... pretty unique... and the bersekers are just insane!



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Old 09-10-2002, 05:37 PM   #193
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Berserkers can be decent. I'm used to mowing them down with HHDs or fighters so they really didn't impressed me that much, but I guess it really depends on what they're attacking and how many are doing it (of course the regen is always nice to have). As for the air speeders; technically it would be a double redundant unit since the Rebels already have both fighters and mech destroyers. The air speeder is hardly needed, handy to have I admit since all mechs but 1 can't counter, but given units other units can do it's job... See the point? It's the same with the gunship. Sure a fighter escorted transport can transport unit and give it cover fire, but the gunship would be able to do both... hardly needed but can be handy to have, just like pretty much all the UUs.

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Old 09-10-2002, 07:44 PM   #194
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All right I get it(at least Krillith is convincing). You got a point but I am still against the gunship thing or they would have to get rid of the jedi starfighter.They are both quite strong UU and having two of them would unbalance the game. The A-Wing was not unbalancing the game 'cause it was weak and same with the probot.


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Old 09-10-2002, 08:56 PM   #195
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Beserks chew through buildings and mechs and do a fairly decent job against other things.

Kryillth, the difference is that the airspeeder doesnt have to multitask. They dont have to perform two jobs at once. They dont replace fighters and have one purpose: to give the rebs a fast anti-mech unit because they have the worst mech destroyers in the game and would be killed by mechs every game without them. Prime example of gameplay>realism. The gunship is realism>gameplay and it is evident. It replaces strong republic units (trannie, fighter), has to perform both taks at once and and would be increbly hard to balance without it becoming a uber-unit or a useless unit.


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Old 09-11-2002, 04:03 AM   #196
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Sithmaster - this isnt about replacing anything, it is about giving the republic a unique ability based on a unit.

Luke - remember, this is for SW:GB2. If the gunship was to be included in the game, the gunship would be part of the original balancing.

Back to the gunship, as i have said over and over again, there is really only one thing that must apply for a unit to be a unique unit, there must be no equivalent. There is no equivalent to the gunship. It's abilities include-
-ability to carry troops
-ability to provide covering fire and close support for those troops
-only atmospheric flight
-large crew to operate numerous weapons

Now tell me, why should the gunshup not be a UU while units such as the Destroyer Droid are?

Also, the gunship IS NOT A FIGHTER nor does it fit the requirements of a fighter.


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Old 09-11-2002, 04:52 AM   #197
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OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!

CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!



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Old 09-11-2002, 10:35 AM   #198
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I'm not suggesting the gunship do the overall work of the fighters (gamewise we're talking about the gunship AA being pretty lousy so it would get chewed apart by fighters unless it outnumbers them, kind of like fighter vs. speeder). Against ground units, it might be as good as the fighter--decent against infantry and not so good vs. mechs/heavies.

Nor am I suggesting that it completely replace the Republic air transports, since it wouldn't be designed to carry the heavy units. Personally I think the gunship would be helpful for dropping the Republic's excellent Jedi down while blasting bounty hunters, or just transporting the Republics fast output laser troops and advanced medics. Basically I see it as a supplimentary unit, which is primarily what UUs are meant to be anyway.

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Old 09-11-2002, 12:21 PM   #199
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Windu mate, give me the specs of your unique unit (the gunship) and how you would balance it with the rest of the civs.


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Old 09-11-2002, 05:00 PM   #200
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CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!

Windu your post makes no sense (big shocker )

First of all, if it's for your mythical GB2 then this entire thread is pointless anyway since they would use a much more current engine and could probably do a lot to alter all of the civs for more diversity.

Second of all, WTF does atmospheric flight have to do with making the gunship a UU? The game engine already assumes that every single aircraft in the game is courteous enough to fly low enough that units on the ground can shoot at them. Not to mention, does that mean the Republic would not get the gunship on space maps, since asteroids don't have enough gravity to retain an atmosphere? (The response to this question is obvious even to me, but those of you who figure it out will also realize that the quality of "atmospheric flight" is still of no use whatsoever.

What does the "large crew to operate numerous weapons" quality mean? What significance does that have? Is your gunship going to cost 5 units on the pop count?

<brainless babbling>"Also, the gunship IS NOT A FIGHTER nor does it fit the requirements of a fighter"</brainless babbling>

Yeah, it flies and it shoots at things. That is nothing like a fighter at all.

Close this thread or feel the wrath of Vader.
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