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Old 07-23-2002, 02:31 PM   #41
Drakewl
 
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another idea

what about mini games, more games of the nasty manner
have you enjoyed opening the hangar doors in the cairn base with all of those storm troopers sucked out into space

imagine you have a long bridge or catwalk and there are seperated troops of enemies coming to engage you, but they have to cross this bridge.

Above the bridge is a big roof of loose rocks. Shooting at certain rocks (breakables) and destroying them activates a specified trigger event that will let fall more rocks onto the bridge where the troops are walking. Will you crush them?


Or you have a plateau, on one side the cliff to the valley, on the other side a wall. There are pipes coming out of the wall to get rid of fluids or gas. And of course there are enemies coming along the plateau to you. You'll have to activate the ventilators or
pumps to give your enemies some hurdles at the right time.
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Old 07-24-2002, 04:36 AM   #42
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Good idea. It adds a lot to the gameplay having little things to sidetrack the mission at hand.


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Old 07-24-2002, 04:36 PM   #43
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here some additional links for interested leveldesigners, you will probably have to register at gamasutra for accessing their stuff

different level design articles are available through this link

http://www.gamasutra.com/resource_gu...16/index.shtml
its about architecture, design implementation, techniques, etc


and here some helpful readings for story creation, its about drama, general structure, exciting themes, etc
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...tlejohn_01.htm
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Old 07-24-2002, 05:41 PM   #44
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There was something I posted a long while ago in General Editing about using Installers for Mods/TCs that RichDiesal brought back up in another thread of using Installers for Single Player levels. That's another good tip to think about. Make an installer for your level so people don't have to do much to get it installed.



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Old 07-24-2002, 06:20 PM   #45
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There was a very good one I used for BoaMSE called the "KlikTeam" installer... it's fully customisable, comes with uninstaller, you can program it so that it automatically finds the game directory and best of all it's freeware. I think I got it from www.zdnet.com or something like that.

[edit: it's called "Clickteam Installer" and you can find it at the link below.]

http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2383-7978184.html


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Old 07-24-2002, 06:30 PM   #46
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there are tons of em out there. The best I've seen, while still being cheap in terms of price is Setup Factory 5.0.

link is http://www.indigorose.com/site/index.php



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Old 07-25-2002, 03:52 PM   #47
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"free" is better than "cheap" - ill try the click team thing
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Old 07-25-2002, 06:51 PM   #48
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Hehe... you tightarse.


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Old 07-25-2002, 08:44 PM   #49
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Quote:
your place or level plot has a final end
your character and universe plot has a loose end.
well put

Quote:
I suggest that if you want to make a decent sp level then you should relate it to another Star Wars Game. I'm currently building an SP level based on Azzameen Station (can't remember how you spell it, I'll make sure it's correct by the time I'm finishing up) from X-Wing Alliance.
hehe i had an idea for a mission that went along lines like that; that is cool - players like familiarity without repetition


is it just me? or are the forums still all whacked? one thread i added a reply and it put it in the middle!

edit: just like this! WTF??!?!?!?!

:burn1:
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Old 07-25-2002, 11:33 PM   #50
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I got the full version of Wise Installer Pro 4.02 for "free" and it kicks ASS! God I love it.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 07-26-2002, 12:56 AM   #51
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MAKE THIS KICK @$$ THREAD STICKY!
err... stuck....

VERY good thread with helpful tips.

My comments even though i haven't even made one map yet :

Unless you are going to make a sequel, try not to make lose ends, unless the lose end involves a very minor character (imperial officer, for example) After you play a level, you could think 'Why did this guy join forces with this other guy?' or in HL's case,
'Who the hell is g-man???'

I think multiple endings (even only two) would make a level fun to play agian. For example, in Jedi Knight, you could either end up light side or dark side, and the bosses and cutscenes changed to reflect your decision.

Give your map depth. If it is an office, you could have it so you could see into other rooms even if you can't get in them. It makes your map seem like it is actually a full office, not just a series of corridors and elevators with offices that only contain an enemy or items or something.

Like someone else said: Make your level memorable. You know, just a touch or two, even just one good easter egg, makes it fun to play, and people will remember the map because of it.

Immerse your level into the Universe it exists in: If it takes place during the Galactic Civil war, maybe you could include a character or scene from the era into your level, even if it is only a glimpse of a noticable character, or a small scene you could re-make as scripting.

My 2 credits.
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Old 07-26-2002, 02:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
Hehe... you tightarse.
hey YOU are the one pimpin the fact that its free!

Quote:
I got the full version of Wise Installer Pro 4.02 for "free" and it kicks ASS! God I love it.
i might try that too - i can get things "at a discount"

Quote:
I think multiple endings (even only two) would make a level fun to play agian. For example, in Jedi Knight, you could either end up light side or dark side, and the bosses and cutscenes changed to reflect your decision.
yeah, thatd be cool feature
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Old 07-26-2002, 06:35 AM   #53
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Hi all

Nice thread!

I've taken to writing SW intros recently. I've been looking into modifying the scrolling text at the beginning of the JO SP game and I'm getting there. Has anyone managed to edit this yet?

Anyway.

There's a definate art to writing these. I've written about 20 of the things so far just as a starter for the SP levels I had in mind.
I think they really make a difference. They set the scene and really create the whole mood for each level. Too many times I've booted up a new SP level just to be dumped into a room with a bunch of storm troopers.
I've yet to play an SP level that really satisfied apart from Ladder with dismemberment set to 3 (it's quite a challenge).

I do get the feeling that a lot of people don't really understand the dynamic behind a decent SP level. The story is all. It's why we play the SP game in the first place. Yes there's action there but we can get that from MP at any time!

I suggest that if you want to make a decent sp level then you should relate it to another Star Wars Game. I'm currently building an SP level based on Azzameen Station (can't remember how you spell it, I'll make sure it's correct by the time I'm finishing up) from X-Wing Alliance. It's a brilliant building and it'll be familiar to most of the PC gamers out there.

Just make sure that you base it around somthing familiar to the player. I really didn't understand levels like Emperors Villa. I mean does Darth Sideos really look like he'd have a villa! He's a dark room at the top of a tower kinda guy!

How about a Calamari Cruiser? Kuat Drive Yards?

Go through as many SW games as possible and see what you can find.....
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Old 07-26-2002, 09:16 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wes Marrakesh
Unless you are going to make a sequel, try not to make lose ends, unless the lose end involves a very minor character (imperial officer, for example) After you play a level, you could think 'Why did this guy join forces with this other guy?' or in HL's case,
'Who the hell is g-man???'
Regardless of sequel, I've always liked loose ends. Adds a sense of mystery to the level and let's the player use his own imagination to fill the gaps. I'm not planning to make a sequel to my level, but I'm deliberately leaving loose ends so that if the level is succesful enough, I can make one. But it will still stand as a good level in its own right, just in case I don't want to make a sequel.


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Old 07-26-2002, 09:49 AM   #55
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Yeah

I love the fact that Tavion survives. It allows all us mappers to make a follow up........
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Old 07-26-2002, 01:30 PM   #56
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Actually it was meant for an expansion pack to JO.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 07-26-2002, 04:17 PM   #57
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i think usually its necessary to mix loose ends with common ends, you just have to give one of them priority

in most times your sp level mirrors a certain plot, this way only a part of the life of the protagonist you are playing


this plot or substory (a row of one or more events related to the level) should have a local end (which is mostly related to the final mission targets), if you dont plan to release further continuationmaps after a short perioide of time, that continue with the accomplishment of the overall main final end target of the player character

the results of accomplished mission targets influence the life and attitude of participating characters (player character and npcs) and/or the form, style, composition of objects or places, which again can influence other (life-)parts of the corresponding universe
...Like a destroyed planet whose space traveling inhabitants will hate and revenge on the race for the destroyment of their planet

this way, the results in one level can make the story of your next level, which is the most clever way to do

to summarize it:
your place or level plot has a final end
your character and universe plot has a loose end.


having levels with the same protagonist(s) but with completely different storyplots that don't correspond to each other, isn't a clever way of creating plausible parts of a universe, people wont like them as much as continuation levels that tell you an ever developing story
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Old 07-28-2002, 07:47 AM   #58
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This thread has been completely ruined... replies are just appearing in the middle of it.

I'm thinking of compiling everything here into an article and sending it into JKII.net, what does everyone think about that?


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Old 07-28-2002, 09:18 AM   #59
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seems this isn't the only thread to be ruined AK. I agree on making one big article.



She left ya now she's back stickin out her rack
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Can't wait to see her face when I'm in her place
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Old 07-28-2002, 08:30 PM   #60
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jep i also think its the best to recycle the thread into a new form otherwise newbies will become confused with the form this thread has at the moment

and who knows, maybe the one or other level designer will remember the advices while creating or planning their maps
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:17 PM   #61
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just another idea popped into my head while reading something about max payne


if you do some voice recording for your map, mod or whatever then why not giving your own character sayings some more attention

in some other reply i said to give your character some rocking sayings of the funny nature


but if you are able, you should intensify it

instead of showing the history/life of the player character via readme file or cutscene (outer view), it could be told during the gameplay like the player character is talking to oneself (monologue). If the player character sees something or someone, he/she already knows about, the character voice could be turned on.
Like meeting a known person in a nightclub and then talking about the person to complete old memories, inner voice: "mmh wasn't he the pilot who shot me 6 years ago where i was fighting in the service of jabba the hut to take revenge on the bold chewbacca for the lack of respect to jabbas followers. mmhhh yeah he reminds on that person, doubt he will remember me..."

Last edited by Drakewl; 08-01-2002 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 08-01-2002, 08:44 AM   #62
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Yeah.. that's what I'm sort of planning to do for my level... I'm thinking of adding a Blade Runner style past tense narration from the main character...


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Old 08-01-2002, 01:34 PM   #63
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do i have already spoken about shadows?


looking all the recent screenshots of games like doom3 or farcry (see the links), i'll have to come up with this, can't resist

recent doom3 shots:
http://www.tothegame.com/screenshot.asp?screens=10224

recent farcry shots:
http://www.tothegame.com/screenshot.asp?screens=10229

on the last link take a focus on the indoor screenshots, outdoor wont matter here


if you are skilled enough, try to implement some awesome looking shadow effects, the player could get a few adrenalin rushes while discovering the map, which is a good way to increase the overall fun of the map. Good lighting that results in a lot of spooky shadow effects is probably fitting into maps where you rather fight against quality opponents than masses of enemies.
Think about how your eyes are reacting to light and dark areas.
Coming into a bright lightened room and then going into a dull lightened room with lots of shadows, your eyes need some time to get used to the lower brightness. At this moment you can surprise the player (announce the surprise with some triggered music, reminding you of mounting tension curves) with a clever positioned enemy or some kind of event. I like it to be scared out of my skin

people who played avp2 should know what im talking about.

Last edited by Drakewl; 08-01-2002 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 08-01-2002, 01:48 PM   #64
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Agreed on all accounts... personally, I think that lighting is just as important as architecture.. you can convey mood and atmosphere much easier, and usually much more effective with lighting. You can also make crap architecture look Godly with JO's lighting...


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Old 08-01-2002, 02:32 PM   #65
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I can't wait till ydnar is done with q3map2 JO support. Faster compiles, more reliable auto-cull, and vastly improved lighting. Hmm...


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Old 08-01-2002, 07:05 PM   #66
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Really? Excellent.. how much faster? Is it a friendly Windows application or another DOS program that requires a load of extensions?


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Old 08-01-2002, 07:08 PM   #67
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DOS program I think, but a HELL of a lot faster.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-01-2002, 11:05 PM   #68
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jep its definitely another DOS programm

but its extensions are already explored function wise, just take a look into the quake3world-forums. Most things are described, no big experimenting, .. won't be any hurdles for you, Akpiggot

and with nice features like lightmap export/import, shadow smoothing, better vertex lighting, a lot of bugfixes (ever saw shadows on planes where no shadows should have been? -> http://www.planetquake.com/nike/board/lightmap2.jpg ), wider limits on things like MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES for larger maps, weird alpha shadows (http://www.shadowspawn.net/temp/shadows4.jpg and look the colored shadows here http://www.shadowspawn.net/temp/shot0066b.jpg) and many many customizability options


if mappers should dream a dream, it must be because of this little application


btw, not sure but there also could be a windows interface available
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Old 08-02-2002, 03:39 AM   #69
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damn you really love them shadows
they are pretty sweet tho, are those in q3 engine (will it work in JO)?

yeah yeah past tense narration is cool
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Old 08-02-2002, 12:36 PM   #70
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Alpha shadows KICK ASS, I LOVE alpha shadows!

Yes, those are for Q3, they'll work in JO once Q3map2 support is finished in a few week's time. EEE! I CAN'T WAIT!


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Old 08-04-2002, 08:27 AM   #71
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Sounds good... I'll be sure to keep my ear to the ground about it.


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Old 08-04-2002, 01:45 PM   #72
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I'll post a thread about it when it's released.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-08-2002, 07:31 PM   #73
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mmh have to give this a bump

some thoughts about general texture work


when texturing different sections of your map don't get to addicted to texture variety/colors. Looking into a room with green walls, a brownish roof and a blacknwhite checker ground isnt an enjoyment for the eyes.
Also it looks sometimes dull using only greyish textures, you can always add colorful elements with all this detail stuff like pipes having nice shaders, lamps that emit not too high saturated colorlights, blinking computer interfaces and all of these elements.
Designers who want to make their own texture sets, generally create one or two base textures of the same color and style and then add different details to them so you dont have too much repeating texturework. Adding cracks, lattices, small lamps, buttons, skirting board, flaps, etc. into the textures, that you then can put in between the common non-detail textures (base textures of the set), will make the look more suitable for a plausible environment.

Even thoughts about build materials for specific rooms won't be a waste of time. Huge hangars are often made of metallic materials that have a greyisch color with elements of white, blue and black. Rooms for the government/management with people that are used to comfort will often have more expensive materials in not so commonly used colors and shapes. Do you remember one of the first cutscenes where kyle is talking with the white fashioned woman (sorry, forgot her name ) on coruscant in a room with red colored walls and some plants? This room looks more luxorious cuz its for a person with a high rank in the community. I.E. a fine table made of rare wood strengthens the image of a powerful person, not just one of the noob tables made of low quality ore that every imperial officer owns

ok enough about this

another point i would like to mention is again about plausibility

in some maps i have seen large rooms with doors that just a small stormtrooper can go through. How did the AT-ST or other big machines come into the room, where i see no big hangar door. I doubt that some ingenieurs had the patience to construct it directly within the room. Or did i miss something and some genious has already invented beam technology in the starwars universe, hehe?

Last edited by Drakewl; 08-08-2002 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 11-15-2002, 12:16 PM   #74
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bumb
because I liked that thread


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Old 11-19-2002, 04:47 AM   #75
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back from the dead
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Old 11-19-2002, 05:13 AM   #76
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Old 11-19-2002, 06:24 PM   #77
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Post my ideas

first ill give this thread a bumb *bumb*, theren ow back to business

i am a newb, and like any newb i need help, but i want to post a questions and a idea i have for singel player, here they are:

how would i record voices? would i use the cheapo recorder that comes with a windows computer or would i get a "super ultra deluxe sound recorder system 9000" to record my voices and sounds

and for singleplayer, i think it would be great for a player to step out of their lightsaber and forcepower high chair, and get in the trench of a normal soldier or stormtrooper (that would be awsome to be a stormtrooper) i have waited so long for a game to be like you are the stormtrooper or a commander of a group of stormtroopers and wipe the rebels out. i get tired of you are the rebel, because about all games are you are the good guy, itd just be nice to be a dirtbag (like a stormtrooper) and work your way up instead of being the great jedi and turn into the president of the republic

enough for now give me feedback and add me to your list of your msn messenger list if you want sargykid@hotmail.com
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Old 11-27-2002, 10:24 AM   #78
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Glad to see this thead be stickified at long last!

To record voices, you need Sound Recorder and a microphone. You will also need an MP3 Encoder, like freeware LAME. You might also want to check out other freeware/shareware audio programs like GoldWave which are very good for editing voice files. You can add pitch, echoes, filtering and all sorts of distortion techniques to get the right effect for your level.


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Old 11-27-2002, 11:54 AM   #79
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How do you change the "info_player_start" from kyle to another moel i want the player to be a clone trooper for a map im making...........
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Old 11-27-2002, 05:32 PM   #80
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For voices, I also recommend CoolEdit2000. It's shareware, but doesn't expire. Instead it only lets you use two sets of filters and effects at once. Kind of sucks to have to keep restarting to do different effects, but it works. It's got a great pitch modifier that is great for voice altering. Unlike Goldwave, it doesn't change the speed of the voice in the process.

Using CE2000 and Goldwave or other apps, you can turn one voice actor into three or four. I wouldn't recommend doing that for the main characters (although JC Denton and Paul Denton in Deus Ex are done by the same voice actor, but it makes sense there), but it works great for NPCs.
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Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Editing Central > JO Mapping > Some Handy Tips for SP Editors...

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