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Old 07-30-2002, 08:27 PM   #1
Wes Marrakesh
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Question r_showtris?

Why doesn't typing in r_showtris 1 in console and pressing enter make it so i see all the triangles being drawn?
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Old 07-30-2002, 09:25 PM   #2
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Because you're in MP. I think you have to put in developer 1 first.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 07-30-2002, 09:43 PM   #3
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let me try that... brb
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Old 07-30-2002, 09:51 PM   #4
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that doesn't work... says it is cheat protected even when i load it with devmap...
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Old 07-30-2002, 09:57 PM   #5
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DEVMAP mapname
developer 1
r_showtris 1


Yes, it works, I just tried it. If you got cheat protected, you weren't in devmap mode.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:02 PM   #6
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well, that was what i did.... i'll go try again...
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:09 PM   #7
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thx Emon, it works now...
next question: Why do i get this error when i compile?
WARNING: areaprotal_(a number) doesn't touch two areas
even when i have checked that it is touching structural.. and aren't structural brushes supposed to block Vis? they don't seem to...
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:09 PM   #8
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Just test it in SP. It will work there.


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Old 07-31-2002, 09:29 AM   #9
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areaportals have to completely fill the door they're inside, and this doorway has to be in a hallway. Portals never seem to work when you're trying to put one between two rooms that share a wall.

From top down view, put the area portal inside the door and make it only a few units thick. The thinner it is the better it seems to work.

Then switch to a horizontal view and make the brush flush with your door brushes.
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Old 07-31-2002, 11:19 AM   #10
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that's what i've done....
and the room and the hallway share a wall...
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:44 PM   #11
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Is the room "sealed"?

Basically areaportals can also fail if there is a "leak" in your map that allows an entity to find another way of getting to the other side of the area portal.

Meaning if you hvae a room with two doors, you'll need two areaportals. If you have three doors, you need three portals.

And by sharing a wall i meant that one side of a brush is in one room, and the other side is part of the other room. I could forsee doing that with a hallway causing problems too.
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Old 07-31-2002, 09:03 PM   #12
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no, nothing goes through the dividing brush... is it my windows?
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Old 08-01-2002, 12:40 AM   #13
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so what is up with areaportals? i though that stuff was put in automatically during compile; why do you need to manually put areaportals in? i.e. what circumstances does it help?
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Old 08-01-2002, 06:10 AM   #14
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where can i find the areaportal texture?! is it the "portal" shader?
or maby "portal_door" ?

please help!
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Old 08-01-2002, 09:20 AM   #15
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yes, it would be your windows that are breaking the areaportals.

And for george, the code that determines what parts of the map get drawn from any other part of the map is good for most situations, but sometimes it needs a little bit of help to get the absolute best speeds out of the map.

It's just a little computer program that does what it's told to do.. it hasn't been explained how to deal with every situation a mapper might create, so the good folks at id software put in features to enable a savvy map maker to tweak the compile process into getting the best case scenario.
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Old 08-01-2002, 12:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
so what is up with areaportals? i though that stuff was put in automatically during compile; why do you need to manually put areaportals in? i.e. what circumstances does it help?
You must put areaportals in areas where you want a brush-based entity (such as a door) to block VIS. If you do not, since entities do not block VIS (during compile), the room behind your doorway will be drawn even when the door is closed.


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Old 08-01-2002, 11:17 PM   #17
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People--you really, really gotta learn this.

I have seen quite a few maps that would have been great--but the lag kilt them cause there were no area_portals.

If you can master them there will be no--or little need for the complicated and conphusing hint brushes.


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Old 08-02-2002, 01:34 AM   #18
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Hint brushes aren't really all that complex, it's just that there are relatively few places where you actually need to use them, and most people, once they figure out how they work, try to put them everwhere.


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Old 08-02-2002, 01:38 AM   #19
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Putting them everywhere like that usually makes things worse, too.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-02-2002, 01:42 AM   #20
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Yes, though not in terms of gameplay... every well-placed hint brush will indeed help framerate/r_speeds, but at what cost? A 1fps jump from 20 or 30 hint brushes may add an hour or two to your compile. It's just typically not worth the effort.


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Old 08-02-2002, 02:10 AM   #21
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Adding more and more hint brushes where not needed will result in extra surfaces, which reduce framerate.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-02-2002, 03:27 AM   #22
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ok, i understand what a hint is, so what does an area portal do that is different? (remember please i just jumped off the HL engine - i may need a little catch-up but im not a newbietard)
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Old 08-02-2002, 11:39 AM   #23
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areaportal would be like a dynamic hint brush.

It tells the game, when this door is closed, don't draw anything behind it.. even if it's in the potentially visible set (most folks call it PVS).

Hint brushes do nothing like that. The game may draw a part of the world, even if there's no possibility you can see it, if it falls into the pvs.

Hints are just that, hints. The game will use them as it sees fit.

Areaportals cannot be ignored, unless the room you are trying to portal "leaks" and the areaportal fails.
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Old 08-02-2002, 12:06 PM   #24
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so.... where would you ideally put hint brushes?
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Old 08-02-2002, 03:27 PM   #25
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so like what if i have a door thats set to be open by default?

can it be used with other entities as well?
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Old 08-02-2002, 03:33 PM   #26
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Yes, it would work on a door set to be open by default, I believe, though I've never tried it myself... an areaportal, yes, is just a dynamic hint brush in that it is triggered by brush-based entities moving in and out of it.

Quote:
Adding more and more hint brushes where not needed will result in extra surfaces, which reduce framerate.
Thus why I said "well-placed".

If any of you want to learn the true mysteries of hinting a map, read http://www.nibsworld.com/rtcw/tutori...es_part1.shtml


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Old 08-03-2002, 04:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wes Marrakesh
so.... where would you ideally put hint brushes?
that's part of the art of making maps.

r_showtris is probably the best way to figure out hint brush placement. Run around inside your map and pay attention to what parts of your map are being drawn.

If you see a situation where the game is drawing far more of the map than you know is actually visible, it's safe to say a hint brush would help in that situation.

There's lots of good info on hint brushes but that should get you started. Since placement is a bit more complicated than just dropping a big square brush in the middle of a hall you should go read some of them.
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Old 08-03-2002, 04:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xzzy



If you see a situation where the game is drawing far more of the map than you know is actually visible, it's safe to say a hint brush would help in that situation.

READ: My entire map....
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Old 08-03-2002, 04:32 PM   #29
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If your entire map is always being drawn at all times (assuming you have multiple sections to your map and it's not one big open area), that's usually a sign that something else is wrong, such as a leak. If your map leaks, VIS won't execute and your whole map will be drawn at all times.


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Old 08-03-2002, 04:36 PM   #30
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wel... i have skyboxed it and the map is sealed.
the big issue is probably my windows....
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Old 08-03-2002, 06:24 PM   #31
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Yeah, area_portals are worthless if you have lots of windows...because the window touches a room that can see the other side of the portal--resulting in everything being drawn.

Try making a wall out of a skybox and placing it where the area_portal connects to the side of the room.

That will seal off the map and make the area_portal do its thing.


= )


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 08-03-2002, 06:59 PM   #32
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do you mean making a piece of skybox and putting it in a window? please make it more clear what you mean...
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Old 08-03-2002, 07:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichDiesal
If your entire map is always being drawn at all times (assuming you have multiple sections to your map and it's not one big open area),
if he's still working on the map I downloaded a week or two ago to help on another problem, that's precisely what it is.. a huge box, with a tower in the middle, which is a second huge box.
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Old 08-03-2002, 09:19 PM   #34
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Quote:
an areaportal, yes, is just a dynamic hint brush in that it is triggered by brush-based entities moving in and out of it
thanks thats what i was wondering
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Old 08-03-2002, 10:39 PM   #35
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Xzzy i assume you are talking about my map?
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Old 08-04-2002, 04:11 AM   #36
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Nonon, not puttting it IN your window--but sealing OFF your windows with small skyboxes.

So each window looks into separate little boxes.

That will fix the problem--and take some time...


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 08-04-2002, 12:26 PM   #37
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but you can still see what is behind the skybox... how would that help?
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Old 08-05-2002, 11:57 AM   #38
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..
no..
you can't...

I am not getting through--I really wish I could send you a screenie of what I mean.....


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 08-05-2002, 01:05 PM   #39
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that would help....
you could just draw it up quickly in editor then use alt-printscreen and paste it into image and post/send if you would go that far...
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Old 08-05-2002, 02:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wes Marrakesh
but you can still see what is behind the skybox... how would that help?
it seems to be dependant on how good your vis stage compiled.

Sky brushes DO block vis during compile, so if you end up seeing stuff on the far side of a sky brush, that means vis is somehow finding a path to that area through some other part of your map.

Hint brushes can help control that.
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