lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Why does everyone hate FF?
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 08-04-2002, 12:56 PM   #1
SD_HaVoK
 
SD_HaVoK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Greenville, South Carolina
Posts: 2
Why does everyone hate FF?

I have noticed that most people have ALWAYS hated Full Force. Why is this?


Im an elite or good ffer and i win most of my matches, then when i win everyone says, well ff is cheap.

Is there anyone else who dosent think this?

PS: If you want a good FF game contact me on the MSN Gaming Zone, my name is SD_HaVoK.


SD_HaVoK

Leader of Silent Death

Elite FF Saberist
SD_HaVoK is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-04-2002, 01:43 PM   #2
ExarDunnan
 
ExarDunnan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The middle of nowhere, Kansas....
Posts: 25
I don't mind it

In my opinion, FF is a "good thing" (LOL, Martha Stewart is funny), and I always use jedi master force in my servers. I can't really play with other people online, as the computer that I play it on has a screwed up internet! DAMN

Okay, I feel better now! Anyhow, I hope that I can get the internet to work soon!


-Exar Dunnan
ExarDunnan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-04-2002, 02:03 PM   #3
Caster
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 173
Full force is fun. But I would say for a more authentic jedi fight. Jedi Knight force ranking is better, since usually most people tend to put their points in the neurtal force powers instead of light and dark.


Fuel burning space polluting X-Wings!
You probably have seat
belts with those shield of yours!
Caster is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-04-2002, 02:11 PM   #4
Homosexual Ewok
 
Homosexual Ewok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 595
FF takes a lot more time investment to properly learn than NF dueling. Not only do you have to learn the saber combat that comes w/ NF dueling, but you also have to learn the counters and proper defenses for the various Force based attacks.

Now throw in the variable of having to defend against opponents running at 2X speed, shooting lightning, throwing sabers, pulling you across the map and into a kick, and several other Force based attacks, and it's not difficult to see why people get frustrated with it.

You have to always keep one thing in mind about the JO community; most players will simply give up and cry "Lame/Gay/Noob/Cheap/Spam" rather than investing the time to learn the counters.

Every single patch was brought about by players who spent more time crying than learning, every single patch had the sole purpose of weakening some element of the games attack options, and every single time the same people found something new to cry about.

You think that is a joke?
Look at all the new "Blue stance lunge Spammer/Kick whore" posts.
Two of the simplest moves in the game to avoid, yet they still whine.

There are two types of FF duelers. The "Headless Force Chickens" and the pro/comp level duel players.
You will never see a HFC pull off a saber throw>pull>pull+kick>DFA combo, yet the players that can do moves like that always seem to get lumped in with the HFC crowd.
Any NF duelers who doubt the level of skill required in FF dueling, go and try to pull that combo off "on the fly" against an experienced FF duel player. 90% of them won't even make it to the second part of the combo.


I'm not knocking NF dueling, it can be and is fun, but compared to FF duels, the pace is so ridiculously slow and the range of attacks is so simple that I just can't play it for long without becoming bored.

The bottom line is, it requires you to learn and develop the ability to implement defenses that are not required in NF duels. It requires you to develop the ability to implement these defenses almost immediately when attacked due to the faster nature of FF dueling.

Now that said, keep in mind that the same people who cry "cheap" are the same people who could not figure out how to stop a simple pull/backstab combo in v1.03.
It is not hard to see why this form of play is not enjoyed by the masses.

Too complex, too fast, they die quick, they flame and complain.
It's the way things have been with this community since day 1, you just have to ignore it and seek out players that are on your level of ability.
Homosexual Ewok is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 04:01 AM   #5
thehomicidalegg
 
thehomicidalegg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 984
its coz ppl are too lazy to master all the forces and there are more ways to die
thehomicidalegg is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 04:31 AM   #6
[RAA]-=Chi3f=-
Schism
 
[RAA]-=Chi3f=-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Paris, Hilton
Posts: 2,111
Re: Why does everyone hate FF?

Quote:
Originally posted by SD_HaVoK
I have noticed that most people have ALWAYS hated Full Force. Why is this?


Im an elite or good ffer and i win most of my matches, then when i win everyone says, well ff is cheap.

Is there anyone else who dosent think this?

PS: If you want a good FF game contact me on the MSN Gaming Zone, my name is SD_HaVoK.
Welcome!

I happen to like FF. Though I don't mind playing with PF, either. Some people just can't play with force so they're given this option.


This is not a custom sig.

Last edited by [RAA]-=Chi3f=-; 08-05-2002 at 04:45 AM.
[RAA]-=Chi3f=- is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 04:50 AM   #7
kazune
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2
hmm

"Now throw in the variable of having to defend against opponents running at 2X speed, shooting lightning, throwing sabers, pulling you across the map and into a kick, and several other Force based attacks, and it's not difficult to see why people get frustrated with it. "

Using Absorb would get rid of 90% of ones problems in that case. Add heal to it and all you need to do is keeping your force bar above 3 bars and trying not to get hit too often.
If your oponent doesn't have heal you win the fight 85% of the time. *s*

I really like that combination.


Kazune
kazune is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 04:54 AM   #8
Lightning
 
Lightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Netherlands Ship: Z-95 Headhunter
Posts: 496
i like ff i think there should be more ff servers
Lightning is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 06:47 AM   #9
<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
 
<JOTD>Jedi Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 946
My clan enjoys hosting ff servers all of the time... Although they are strictly clan restricted. I just wanted to let you know that there are people out there who still love ff.


HE LIVES INSIDE MY MOUTH AND TELLS ME WHAT TO SAY WHEN HE TURNS THE TRAINS ON HE MAKES IT GO AWAY THE HANDS ARE CRACKED AND DIRTY AND THE NAILS ARE BEETLE WINGS WHEN HE TURNS THE TRAINS ON HE UNTIES ALL OF THE STRINGS
THE WORM: "TELL ME SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL, TELL ME SOMETHING FREE, TELL ME SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL AND I WISH THAT I COULD BE." JACK: (NOT SPOKEN) COME, COME THE TOYS ALL SMELL LIKE CHILDREN AND SCAB-KNEES WILL OBEY I'LL HAVE TO KNEEL ON BROOMSTICKSJUST TO MAKE IT GO AWAY [THE INAUGURATION OF THE WORM] A VOICE WE HAVE NOT YET HEARD: "BECAUSE TODAY
IS BLACK/BECAUSE THERE IS NO TURNING BACK. BECAUSE YOUR LIES HAVE WATERED ME/ I HAVE BECOME THE STRONGEST WEED" THROUGH JACK'S EYES: THE TASTE OF METAL DISINTEGRATOR THREE HOLES UPON THE LEATHER BELT IT'S CUT AND SWOLLEN AND THE AGE IS SHOWING BOY: " THERE'S NO ONE HERE TO SAVE OURSELF." THE DISINTEGRATOR: (TO HIMSELF) THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR YOU ARE WHAT YOU SHOULD FEAR
<JOTD>Jedi Hunter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 10:24 AM   #10
RahnDelSol
 
RahnDelSol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 89
It's very simple.

It's easier for a good player to kill a scrub if he has his force powers.

If it's no-force, the scrub can run around swinging like a madman, and live slightly longer. In his mind, no-force is the only real "skill" in the game. All force powers are cheap.

Read this article...it's not about JKII, but the player mentality is the same.

Play to Win

Read this, you'll see why people hate force powers.


I'm not good enough to have a sig-line.
RahnDelSol is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 10:27 AM   #11
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Thumbs up

Well I'm sure "Everyone" doesn't hate it, or they wouldn't keep making games where you could have a ridiculous amount of Force powers.

Even Obi-Wan (when it was for PC) was going to have mucho force in MP, even though it was going to have low neutral-only force in SP.

The fact is, FF takes a different kind of strategy than low or NF, and people who are semi-expert at it agree that it takes more skill to master and keep ahead in the FF game than in the lower force levels most of the time.

It could be that new players feel overwhelmed by the number of forces. Perhaps they don't realize the counters, and fall into the "that power is cheap, I won't play in games that use it" etc, trap.

Others seem feel that role playing NF saber is the only way to go, and so they just spend their time dueling.

I think that enough experienced players enjoy FF that we needn't worry. Try to introduce this (I find, highly fulfilling) mode of play to naysayers... encourage them to give it a try and learn the counters. Point them to sites like mine (I admit, I need to update for the patches, but you get the idea): http://strategy.jediknightii.net and others.

In a "real fight" high level Jedi/Sith would hold NOTHING back, so I find it more exciting. Sure, I like NF duels on occasion, but that's not the reason I bought the games. ; )
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 12:28 PM   #12
Revan Bakr'
 
Revan Bakr''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: In a dark, secluded cave on Korriban
Posts: 294
It's because of all those lightning/drainers out there......


--------------------Revan Bakr'
Sithopath

Revan: Sometimes I feel like you don't know me at all. (Lightsaber ignites) (Slices) And now, you never will. HAHAHAHAHA!

"Austin..... I am your father."
"Really?"
"No, not really. I can't back that up."

http://www.boomspeed.com/jakobo48/Al_sig2.jpg [URL]
Revan Bakr' is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 01:00 PM   #13
crazyplaya73
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 262
Playing with forces is much more interesting and realistic. After all jedi are supossed to use the force.

I like full force on all gametypes except for duel. For duel I like neutral powers only.

The idea of playing without any force power is absurd to me. I guess its good for people who don't know how to use it and don't want to learn but its not for me. It does take skill to use force and you have to master many more kays on the keyboard.

If you don't want force go play on a NF server. If you play on a force server and don't use force then you are at a great disadvantage and you just gotta laugh at people who start a duel by asking NF NK (no force no kick). These folks usually throw whore all over the place. So then I usualy just pull kick em and finish em with a heavy chop. Then they cry that I used force. Heh you just have to laugh at them! I wish I could find more GOOD players to play against.
crazyplaya73 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-05-2002, 03:41 PM   #14
Psionic Jedi
 
Psionic Jedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Reborn Correctional Institute
Posts: 391
With one player using Absorb, FF duels really boil down to saber fights that have the occasional kick and saber throw... If all Force Powers are useless against an Absorber, what dark jedi in their right mind would still use their powers?

If it's Light Jedi v Light Jedi, both players test their skill of... being ABSORBENT! Basically as soon as both players realize they are absorbing, they will just settle it with killing each other with sabers without using any other force power besides self affecting ones like Heal or Protect... it's a standstill.

If it's Light jedi v Dark jedi, Light jedi would win as long as he has sufficient saber skill and absorb on...

Dark jedi v Dark jedi is supposedly interesting since both players have full, effective force at their finger tips..

Jedi v Mercs also interesting to see how jedi can utilize their effective force powers against people who can't defend against it.


This said I like NF and/or with jump enabled Dueling and any other game type (mostly play FFA) with FF.


Without fear, there is no courage
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
This would be really funny if it weren't happening to me.
In the land of California, in the heat of San Jose the dark haired PSIONIC JEDI forged in secret a master computer to control all others and into this computer he poured his money, his computer parts and many screws
One computer to rule them all. One computer to find the foes
One computer to bring them all to hell and in the darkness conquer
In the online gaming world where the envying ones lie.
-Original dito119
Psionic Jedi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-06-2002, 12:39 AM   #15
Arceri
 
Arceri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 79
Well.. my opinion on why there's not many of these anymore is because of the simple fact.

Sabers don't do as much damage as they used to, remember in 1.2 and 1.3? 90% of the servers were FF. That's because sabers were dangerous, and people needed powers to help stay alive. Problem now a days is, people heal faster than they inflict damage in most cases. Particularlly dark sided players with Drain. They'll run backwards healing full before attacking again, then do it over and over until the other guy is dead. Basically it makes duels last way too damn long. I prefer FF too, but not like this. Drain wars remains me of 1.2, where everyone was Dark, whoever Drained first usually won heh. That's kind of how it is now. But... that's my view anyway.

I miss old FF servers to be honest, but I can see why most are now NF or selected force.

Personally, I like neutral force power servers. With only force powers allowed are Jump, pull, push, speed, seeing. Those are fun, real fun.
Arceri is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-06-2002, 12:40 AM   #16
Arceri
 
Arceri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 79
Also, I think making a server FF or high selected force, should also increase the saber damage. That way people will inflict more damage than the person can heal. Therefore doing away with the problem that duels take forever and people abuse healing/drain.
Arceri is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-06-2002, 04:25 AM   #17
Homosexual Ewok
 
Homosexual Ewok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally posted by Arceri

Drain wars remains me of 1.2, where everyone was Dark, whoever Drained first usually won heh. That's kind of how it is now. But... that's my view anyway.
Very true.
Drain is the one and only power (well pull+kick rules too) you need in v1.04 (well FF duels at least).

Please before anyone chimes in with "Use Absorb", let me tell you why it is utterly useless unless fighting a "Lightning Headless Chicken".

A smart Dark sider won't drain you; he lets you deplete your own power.
I keep my distance and use ranged attacks like pull+saber throws to frustrate you into becoming the aggressor.
You move in I drill you with a pull+kick, If I knock you down, you get a saber tossed into your backside.
It is really not hard to knock an opponent down to 40-50% health using these moves only.
Now, you look at your health and say "I better Heal".
Guess what?
I want you to.
Yeah you may be back at or near full health, but due to the insanely high cost of Heal (in Force power) you just screwed yourself by depleting your Force pool.

The thing about Drain that makes it so powerful is even when you hold down the key and waste your power, you can still do short blasts at 1 1/2 second intervals by simply holding down the key.
All I have to do is move in, hold down Drain, kick you, back away and repeat.
You have no power for Absorb, can't get away with speed, and canít toss a saber at me.
You get lucky and land a kick or a low damage saber swing, I step back out of hit range, short blast until I am healed and move back in. The whole time keeping you defenseless due to the long range of level 3 drain.

While we both regenerate at the same speed, what good is 2 seconds of absorb, you can't get away fast enough, you come at me, you have to get close because all you can do is saber or kick. A little running to keep the distance on my part, the second I hear Absorb run out, I turn and nail you with drain again. The difference is I don't have to be close to hit you with it.

I don't know how many times I have seen Light siders frantically scrambling away just so they can get a few points regenerated for Absorb.
Waste of time.
Even if you do get Absorb turned on all I have to do is wait it out, you don't regenerate Force while in Absorb but I do while I am waiting. It runs out, you are empty again, you get nailed with a blast of Lightning and I start draining again.

Light side is not impossible to play; the users are just put into the same position v1.03 Dark side players were in.
You really have to think and play smart, not only to live, but just to stay alive.
Homosexual Ewok is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-06-2002, 04:27 AM   #18
thehomicidalegg
 
thehomicidalegg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 984
if they use lightning use absorb or drain

if they use drain use absorb or attack him once he deplete his force

you can hear absorb so dont use force powers when its turned on, and let them waste their force. use force when they turn absorb off

Force adds a new dimension to fights as it gives it so much more options and possibilty. This depth makes FF enjoyable in its own way
thehomicidalegg is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-06-2002, 05:00 AM   #19
Arceri
 
Arceri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally posted by thehomicidalegg
if they use lightning use absorb or drain

if they use drain use absorb or attack him once he deplete his force

you can hear absorb so dont use force powers when its turned on, and let them waste their force. use force when they turn absorb off

Force adds a new dimension to fights as it gives it so much more options and possibilty. This depth makes FF enjoyable in its own way
Well stated before. Absorb isn't really a counter for Drain. Absorb may block the healing part of Drain, but it doesn't completely block (and by NO means does it absorb it) the draining force pool part of it. This means since Drain requires less force pool to use in a short burst than it does to turn on Absorb, that Drain can be abused indefinately.

By simply making absorb cost slightly more force pool power but giving it the ability to actually ABSORB Drain's power output, that would more likely balance out the force powers overall.
Arceri is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-06-2002, 05:33 AM   #20
Homosexual Ewok
 
Homosexual Ewok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 595
Actually, others have said this and I agree, Drain should "drain" but not heal.

So a Dark sider can't heal, big deal.
He can still keep the Light side player from doing it, so there is balance.

Right now, you have a Light side player who can Heal twice, then no more once the Drain assault starts.
In the game's current form, a Dark side player can heal (short amounts) even as he moves in for every attack on the defenseless Light side user.


This change would give the drained Light sider more of a chance to "Rambo" the Dark sider who is draining him.
Right now it's simply a waste of time unless you land a DFA because any attack you land he heals in a few seconds.
Homosexual Ewok is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-08-2002, 11:34 PM   #21
Clone_1102A
 
Clone_1102A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Clone Cell 16283-A
Posts: 82
the reason I dont like FF

Is that in the movies you didnt see maul running around at 2x shooting lighting, the only force power he use was jump, pull, and push! and besides throw isnt even a real forcepower


Yoda - "Fight Like A Clone"

errr...ok
Clone_1102A is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Game Discussion > Jedi Outcast > Why does everyone hate FF?

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.