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Old 08-13-2002, 07:31 AM   #1
ArtifeX
 
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Post ArtifeX's ProMod 1.0 Beta -- Released

**UPDATE**

Official Server up!

Artifex's Official ProMod 1.0 Beta Server
IP: 63.99.213.122:28070


**UPDATE**

ProMod 1.0 is now up on fileshack.com. Here is the link to download:

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=837

**UPDATE**

ProMod 1.0 Beta has been delivered to jediknightii.net's file upload address. It should be available in their file section as soon as their admins can get around to posting it.

The mod is based off of the issues I had in my article "What needs to happen in 1.04" (http://www.oculis.org/asc/features_104.html), which some of you may already be familiar with. Its aim is to replace the official version of the game in competitions and pro tournaments.

Two major things have been done in the mod:

1.) Saber Combat bugs have been fixed. The infamous, "hit-from-behind-from-in-front" bug is gone, among others. The mechanics have been altered to more accurately reflect true sword combat. See the promod_readme.html file in the distribution file for more info.

2.) Random factors have all been removed. All combat logic is now based upon player skill and input rather than random number generator calls. Again, see the promod_readme.html for more details.

I will be putting up an official game server sometime today hopefully. What was originally the *ASC* challenge server will become the official ProMod dedicated server. Any server admins who would like to get their server up and running with ProMod before jkii.net gets the files posted can contact me at arsartifex@msn.com and I'll see about sending the files directly to you. You can also contact me through that address if you'd like to mirror the file or with feedback on the mod.

I'll update this post throughout the day as questions arise.

*update*

A short feature list:

1. Combat Strength Crosshair (CSC) -- This is a secondary crosshair that will appear outside the radius of the normal crosshair. It shrinks and grows depending on how accurately you are aiming at your opponent.

2. New Combat Engine -- All blocks, parries, deflections, knockaways and defense breakers are linked to the CSC of both players. Two sabers coming into contact with one another will result in an opposed check on both players' CSC's. The player with the higher value (better aim) will end up inflicting some kind of effect on the losing player. The greater the differences in CSC values, the more drastic the effects to the losing player. This means that there are no unblockable swings in ProMod, but neither are there any swings which are 100% blockable.

3. Lightsaber Style Personalities -- Each of the different saber styles gives bonuses and penalties to certain types of combat. For instance, Light style gets bonuses to blocking, but lacks the finesse to Deflect and Knockaway well. Medium style is excellent for Deflections and Knockaways, but has poor Defense Breaking capabilities. Strong is weak on Blocking, but Defense Breaks much more often. This underscores the need to switch between styles as the situation demands.

4. CSC Bonus System -- How many Levels you buy in certain Force Powers can affect your ability to perform different physical and force powered combat maneuvers. Force Jump (which now allows kicking at even Level 1) will change the strength and ease with which you can kick other players and wall jump. Saber Offense and Defense greatly affect your CSC values.

Check out the full readme file: http://www.oculis.org/promod


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Last edited by ArtifeX; 08-13-2002 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 08-13-2002, 08:10 AM   #2
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hmm this sounds like it could be the mod i've been waiting for, i shall try it the minute i see it for download.
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Old 08-13-2002, 08:13 AM   #3
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I've also contacted fileshack.com hoping they'll post it, as they do have a jk2 mod section, though no files exist there yet.


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Old 08-13-2002, 09:48 AM   #4
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Can't wait to give this a try.


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Old 08-13-2002, 09:54 AM   #5
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ArtifeX you're DA MAN !
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Old 08-13-2002, 09:56 AM   #6
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its up at fileshack, you'll have to register an account to download it. I'm off to try now.

http://www.fileshack.com/browse.x?cat=144

EDIT: ok this mod ROCKS!! i cannot wait to play it online, i really hope this catches on and becomes mainstream.

Last edited by Deetox187; 08-13-2002 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 08-13-2002, 10:49 AM   #7
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ArtifeX is back? Thought he quit in the early days of 1.03, of course..I quit in the mid 1.03 days, and maybe didn't see his comeback on here. anyways, mod looks nice, welcome back.


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Old 08-13-2002, 10:54 AM   #8
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looks cool, i want to try it out
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Old 08-13-2002, 10:57 AM   #9
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Yep, I'm back with a little present for all the old-schoolers like yourself who got tired of the consistently bad patches. I'm looking forward to seeing how the mod is received.

There's a ton of under-the-hood work that won't be readily apparent until people have played for a while. Just try ducking before someone tries a Pull/Kick/Saber Throw combo on you. *evil grin*

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
ArtifeX is back? Thought he quit in the early days of 1.03, of course..I quit in the mid 1.03 days, and maybe didn't see his comeback on here. anyways, mod looks nice, welcome back.


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:03 AM   #10
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lol, I was hoping you could bring some more 1.02 back into the game, but maybe 1.04 did and I just don't know it (barely played it so far). But I have come back to play, see how things have changed. I will try the mod when it has lifted off, and more players are conforming to it, as I don't want to learn two different ways to play, especially when competition counts on one of them (yes I'm still on twl..lol). if ProMod is widely accepted, I'll conform.


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:10 AM   #11
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Let me know what competitions you're involved in, and i'll contact the admins about switching over to ProMod. That is, after all, what it's intended and ideally suited for.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
lol, I was hoping you could bring some more 1.02 back into the game, but maybe 1.04 did and I just don't know it (barely played it so far). But I have come back to play, see how things have changed. I will try the mod when it has lifted off, and more players are conforming to it, as I don't want to learn two different ways to play, especially when competition counts on one of them (yes I'm still on twl..lol). if ProMod is widely accepted, I'll conform.


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:13 AM   #12
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twl, 1v1 nf ladder.

twl, CTF, but hey, don't see many 'guns' changes so this one isn't important..but if ya change one, It'd be better if both were changed right? lol


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:18 AM   #13
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How's the saber damage changed in the mod? I'm sick of all the hack and slash in 1.03 and 1.04, I liked it back in 1.02, where every shot counted, could be life or death.


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:24 AM   #14
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Saber damages are as follows:

Light style : ~30 points
Medium style : ~60 points
Strong style : ~90 points

Indeed, every shot does count. All styles now definitely "feel" right.

This is a big deal to people who loved Saber-only CTF. You can now do enough damage to stop a flag carrier, even using Light and Medium style.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
How's the saber damage changed in the mod? I'm sick of all the hack and slash in 1.03 and 1.04, I liked it back in 1.02, where every shot counted, could be life or death.


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:25 AM   #15
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Got a URL for that league?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
twl, 1v1 nf ladder.

twl, CTF, but hey, don't see many 'guns' changes so this one isn't important..but if ya change one, It'd be better if both were changed right? lol


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:31 AM   #16
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That sounds good, how about swinging the saber, will the ending of a swing from medium hit 1 hp while the middle hits 60? I found that this also partly made the game take a long time...I used to side swing heavy and each blow would be pretty lethal, and I would use every part of the swing to try to hit my opponent...this variation in damage hindered me quite a bit.







weren't you ever on twl? www.teamwarfare.net


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:35 AM   #17
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The damage done is still based upon the stage of the swing, but with the added damage, this factor will be less noticeable. Also, the Strong Swings are so large that only the very beginning and the very end of the swing will do significantly less damage. If you hit anything in the front-facing 180-degrees, you'll get close to full damage.

Another thing to consider is that with the CSC involved, you most likely wont hit someone unless you're aiming at them well anyway, so hitting someone way off to one side will most likely get deflected back in your face.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
That sounds good, how about swinging the saber, will the ending of a swing from medium hit 1 hp while the middle hits 60? I found that this also partly made the game take a long time...I used to side swing heavy and each blow would be pretty lethal, and I would use every part of the swing to try to hit my opponent...this variation in damage hindered me quite a bit.







weren't you ever on twl? www.teamwarfare.net


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Old 08-13-2002, 11:37 AM   #18
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that sounds good, finally saber fighting regains it's flair from before. Recently I felt like I was hitting fellow ravers with my large glow stick of a lightsaber.


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Old 08-13-2002, 12:32 PM   #19
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first of all i'd like to say that i like 1.04. those of you who say its all random and doesnt require skill are totally wrong. there maybe a couple random factors, but i hardly noticed them. theres only 2 or 3 really really good people i know of.

anyway, i played this mod, (with Jah-Worrier accually heh) and i have to say i like it.
these are the things i liked about it.

-kicking is more resonable
-the hitting seems to be more accurate, i can hit people from behind!
-the damage seems better

the only thing i didn't really like is you can seem to break people defence at all. with a heavy swing you can't get through medium defences when there a direct hit against them. they don't even move, it just doesn't go through unless you hit from the side. same thing with specials, like the fast lunge. it does no damage unless the other person is swinging or you get them from the side.

oh and one more thing, you can't do a kick dfa for some reason, you just bounce kindof after a kick. also i haven't tried kick on levels 2 or 3. kick on level 3 sounds like it would do to much damage, but i don't know


all in all i like the mod probably more then the normal game (not positive yet) but if you included some defence breaking capabilities it would be alot better i think. i only played about 4 games to 10 (nf duel), so i'm not sure yet, but thats what i think.

at any rate keep up the good work
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Old 08-13-2002, 12:40 PM   #20
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ryudom:

Defense breaking only happens when the attacker has a pretty big CSC score over the defender. This is because the Defense break is one of the most severe effects that can occur in a saber exchange. It renders you completely defenseless to the attacker's incoming swing. Long story short: if this happens to you, you get hit. If this were too common, it would overbalance the Strong style, which has a bonus to this type of attack.


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Old 08-13-2002, 12:41 PM   #21
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With lowered defence, the game would resemble a lot of 1.02, I don't know if you were around during 1.02, but there were low defences, and kicks were fine. It looks like Artifex tried to bring 1.04 a little closer to 1.02, which is great, and added some extra features that just add to the gameplay.


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Old 08-13-2002, 12:49 PM   #22
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In many ways, ProMod is more like 1.02, but as I've said, the whole combat engine was flawed from the beginning because it relied on random factors and cruise-control blocking rather than player input.

I think the greatest thing about it is that you can pick an effect you want in your mind, then alter your tactics to bring it about. The only thing that stands in your way is your own skill and that of your opponent.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
With lowered defence, the game would resemble a lot of 1.02, I don't know if you were around during 1.02, but there were low defences, and kicks were fine. It looks like Artifex tried to bring 1.04 a little closer to 1.02, which is great, and added some extra features that just add to the gameplay.


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Old 08-13-2002, 12:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Defense breaking only happens when the attacker has a pretty big CSC score over the defender. This is because the Defense break is one of the most severe effects that can occur in a saber exchange. It renders you completely defenseless to the attacker's incoming swing. Long story short: if this happens to you, you get hit. If this were too common, it would overbalance the Strong style, which has a bonus to this type of attack.
the only thing is it sounds like this could be exploided alot, like runing away from someone backwards, or asses who will make games go on forever. specials at least should break defenses i think. or maybe heavy could break defences but not inflict much damage
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Old 08-13-2002, 12:56 PM   #24
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The end result I was after was that a player should be able to stand directly in front of an incoming attack, and if he was skilled enough, he could block any attack in the game. The ability to "take the hit" is absolutely essential when trying to emulate sword combat. If there were some type of attack that could always break a defense, then blocking itself would become pointless, as players would become masters of using these defense breaking attacks to the exclusion of all the others.

Also, try switching to the other styles as you close the distance to your opponent. When playing against another human, you can feint to one direction to open up the player's opposite side to attack, then suddenly change direction, gaining the extra CSC difference needed for a defense breaker.

It becomes very difficult to anticipate your opponent's position with your aim as they get closer to you.

Quote:
Originally posted by ryudom


the only thing is it sounds like this could be exploided alot, like runing away from someone backwards, or asses who will make games go on forever. specials at least should break defenses i think. or maybe heavy could break defences but not inflict much damage


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Old 08-13-2002, 01:40 PM   #25
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well maybe, i guess i'll find out after more playing
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Old 08-13-2002, 02:02 PM   #26
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Official ProMod Server Up!

Artifex's Official ProMod 1.0 Beta Server
IP: 63.99.213.122:28070


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Old 08-13-2002, 04:17 PM   #27
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*bump*

*bump*


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Old 08-13-2002, 04:20 PM   #28
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ArtifeX, post this MOD on http://www.jedibattlefield.com
The site was created by Valar, Dsbr, SofD, NCG, and some other clans ....all top competing clans, and all have active duelers (well..most have active duelers) in competition. Convince them, and your power of persuasion on the ladders will be greatly increased.


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Old 08-13-2002, 07:02 PM   #29
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WOW

You people have all seen my posts, you know that I am picky. I find problems in everything.

So my thoughts on this mod...

GET IT AND GET IT NOW!!!

There has never been a blocking system as well designed in this game so far. You can block when you need or want to, but you can't block whe you don't move to face the hit. The blocking works 100% of the time, no luck involved.

ALL the stances work great. I used them all to great effect. Blue speed is very usefull in the sense that it hits medium and parrys when timed right for the perfect quick in and out move. Medium has a good strength balance with heavy. heavy as always is useful but WILL NOT dominate the other stances.

GET THIS PATCH AND RUN IT ON YOUR SERVER. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE RUNNING THIS.

RAVEN IF YOU ARE READING THIS (and you should be) THIS IS WHAT YOUR PATCH SHOULD BE LIKE!!!

thanks

a very happy Fatal


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Old 08-13-2002, 08:32 PM   #30
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I'll just join in here and say that this mod is alot of fun. It definitely feels like you are more in control of the saber. The CSC meter is a brilliant idea, one of those you see and think to yourself, "damn why didn't *I* think of that." It really forces face to face, skill-based battles. Anyone who is sick of garbage and cheap tactics should check this mod out.
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Old 08-13-2002, 08:45 PM   #31
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*bump*


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Old 08-13-2002, 09:49 PM   #32
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Sounds good but I'm going to wait until a nonregister site hosts it.


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Old 08-13-2002, 09:52 PM   #33
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what about that thing were you bouce after a kick? why is that?
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Old 08-13-2002, 10:02 PM   #34
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Re: WOW

Quote:
Originally posted by FatalStrike
You people have all seen my posts, you know that I am picky. I find problems in everything.

So my thoughts on this mod...

GET IT AND GET IT NOW!!!

Just wondering - what version of JK ][ do I need to run this mod?
1.02? 1.03? 1.04?

Thanx...
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Old 08-13-2002, 10:06 PM   #35
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Re: Re: WOW

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre9


Just wondering - what version of JK ][ do I need to run this mod?
1.02? 1.03? 1.04?

Thanx...
You need 1.04.

Thanx


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Old 08-13-2002, 10:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
Sounds good but I'm going to wait until a nonregister site hosts it.
lol why? who cares they don't ask for anything other then your e-mail add.


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Old 08-13-2002, 10:09 PM   #37
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meh, I can live a couple of days without the Mod.


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Old 08-13-2002, 10:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by ryudom
what about that thing were you bouce after a kick? why is that?
So that players don't rely on pull kick to knock you down. it still does the damage but not the HUGE advantage of having your opponent on the floor.


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Old 08-14-2002, 01:20 AM   #39
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Ah, Artifex. I remember you.

Hearing that blocking has been effectively altered is good news. I've been playing the JK2++ mod alot these days, I really like that style. The push pull thing was fixed from 1.03, but of course Raven changed things later on in 1.04. Gamespeed was upped a tad, etc., nothing major, just wanted a fast game. But the lightsaber blocking, which we started questioning in the forums, was and still is utter crap.

One major thing I guess that was done was matching the lightsabers to be effective weapons against guns. We were discussing all this stuff in the WD forums, and came to the conclusion that a skilled gunner worth his salt was superior in effectiveness to a saberist because his gun had better range, sometimes better fire rate, a much larger hit radius, etc. etc. The saberist needed force speed and good timing and aim to score a hit. To compensate for this we did damage levels that are far more radical than your own.

I don't remember the exact hit point values, but i'll put it out in terms of hits on a person with 100/25 health... the starting level of all players.

Light stance - two-three hits. It has to be two good hits, knicking will usually take four to five. Against a person with higher shields, it's like three to four, usually four.

Mediums stance - two-one hits. A good hit usually will do the job in one hit. This is usually the stance you need most against a skilled gunner, as hacking away with light stance ultimately won't dish out the damage as quickly or as easily as an "explosive" weapon can.

Heavy - two-one hits. Because the hit detection is screwy on the heavy stance in 1.04, 1.03, etc., heavy stance isn't all that effective. It hits harder than medium stance, and if you do the downward chop and bury it in a person, they will die in 1 strike.

What's the point of posting this. Well, as I said, I'm of the opinion that in a fast paced, truly competitive enviroment, gunner have always ruled all forms of gameplay. We have already tried your set values for saber damage, and while they were effective for a little while, gunners adapted, realizing the hurt was coming, and it soon became less and less effective. I'm not going to boast and say I'm some awesome player, but I'm certainly not speaking without experience or not trying. It was finally decided that JK2++ would adopt high saber damage. In most people's imaginations, this means everyone is now going pro with the lightsaber. This is far from the truth. In fact, most people have switched back to guns because it's still extremely difficult to win in a saber vs. gun fight. For the most part, even with this really high saber damage, gunners are still very capable of destroying opponents. However, if you time your strikes,and effectively fake out your opponents aim with the rockets, etc., the appropriate reward is given. AKA, get a good hit with a yellow swing, person with gun dies.

All I ask is that you consider this line of thought. The fact that you mention you fixed saber blocking is phenomenal. Too many ctf games I have played where someone turns their back to me and runs, and while I hack away, they deflect me. ?!?!? If you have such precise blocking and fixed aiming, why mess around with this hack and slash stuff. Granted, the current values are more like 1.02, but I've always been a fan of quick ends. If an imperial flechette can kill me from point blank range at one hit, I'm cool with it. I'd just prefer that my saber battles also ended in a similar fashion. Good luck with your mod.
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Old 08-14-2002, 01:26 AM   #40
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I've only played a few minutes against bots and I know this mod is destined to be great...

I'm a fan of your 1.03 Saber tactics, it was so much more informative than the ones at JK2.net and was my guide when I was but a n00blet.

Your expanding ring reminds me of Rainbow Six, Counter-Strike, and other tactical shooters; the expanding cursor is an excellent idea.... Now when I take up a defensive stance and take hits regardless, it makes sense because the circle was large that time... When my blocks are consecutive and reliable I glance at the circle and it's small. Great system you have here...

Now people don't just stand up against a corner and look forward and block every damn hit in front of them, they actually have to look at their opponent in order to stay alive.

Defense breakage isn't random anymore, now it feels as if you has a major screwup in your defensive footwork instead of a freak accident you can blame on lag.

Congrats please keep updating and spread the influence I would love to play this on an NF duel server.

PS please post some servers, Artifex's server seems to be down for me and BOTs use AutoAim so they can practically block all normal swings :O


Without fear, there is no courage
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
This would be really funny if it weren't happening to me.
In the land of California, in the heat of San Jose the dark haired PSIONIC JEDI forged in secret a master computer to control all others and into this computer he poured his money, his computer parts and many screws
One computer to rule them all. One computer to find the foes
One computer to bring them all to hell and in the darkness conquer
In the online gaming world where the envying ones lie.
-Original dito119
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Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Game Discussion > Jedi Outcast > ArtifeX's ProMod 1.0 Beta -- Released

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