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Old 08-14-2002, 03:03 AM   #41
razorace
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Quote:
What's the point of posting this. Well, as I said, I'm of the opinion that in a fast paced, truly competitive enviroment, gunner have always ruled all forms of gameplay. We have already tried your set values for saber damage, and while they were effective for a little while, gunners adapted, realizing the hurt was ...........
The problem with that is the battles will be over VERY quickly if you have to totally rely on the CSC for blocking.

If you want to nerf the gunners a bit just make it so a saber hit on your opponent destroys his gun. (like in the movies).


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Old 08-14-2002, 03:06 AM   #42
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They wont lemme register Fileshak with a hotmail account.

How lame.

Ohh well, hope it goes on other servers soon.
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Old 08-14-2002, 03:16 AM   #43
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i used hotmail to register.
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Old 08-14-2002, 03:31 AM   #44
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I bet you broke it then.


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Old 08-14-2002, 05:26 AM   #45
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An idea for your Mod Artifex,

Multiple duels in FFA mode would be a good idea, without them I find that FFA turns into a brawl.


Peace & Ting

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Old 08-14-2002, 06:59 AM   #46
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Theres only one thing i don't like about the mod, the singletap front kick should still be a doubletap in my opinion. I do prefer singletap kicks but now that 1.02 bug is back where if you're too close to a ledge you kick it instead of jumping over it, that bug bugs me.
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Old 08-14-2002, 07:23 AM   #47
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Brilliant ...

First thing : Awesome Mod artifex

Now what im hoping is that you continue on with this mod. It has the potential to be huge great if you assemble a little team together and send out gradual updates, little extra features per update. Anyway thats just my wishes and i understand wholly if you do not wish too.

Anyway people Hats off to artifex
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Old 08-14-2002, 07:59 AM   #48
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Well it sounds interesting but many of us are hooked on Jedimod which un-nerfs most of the special moves and it allows you to lower kick damage and knock down a saber throw. Plus all the added visual stuff like model scaling and emotes adds to the fun. And the grappling hook is the sh*t.

Since the Jedimod source code is pubic would you concider putting some of the jedimod code into your mod?
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Old 08-14-2002, 08:30 AM   #49
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Re: Re: WOW

My server's running 1.04, but I don't see any reason it won't run with 1.03, as all 1.03 did was change multiplayer balance. I do seem to remember some bug fixes from 1.02 to 1.03 though. Also, a different version than what is on the server may cause problems with servers that are running "pure", but that goes for any mod, not just ProMod.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabre9


Just wondering - what version of JK ][ do I need to run this mod?
1.02? 1.03? 1.04?

Thanx...


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Old 08-14-2002, 08:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft


All I ask is that you consider this line of thought. The fact that you mention you fixed saber blocking is phenomenal. Too many ctf games I have played where someone turns their back to me and runs, and while I hack away, they deflect me. ?!?!? If you have such precise blocking and fixed aiming, why mess around with this hack and slash stuff. Granted, the current values are more like 1.02, but I've always been a fan of quick ends. If an imperial flechette can kill me from point blank range at one hit, I'm cool with it. I'd just prefer that my saber battles also ended in a similar fashion. Good luck with your mod.
This is exactly the type of criticism that I'm after. Adjusting the saber damage vs. someone not wielding a saber has actually been on my to do list for 2 or 3 days now. You can bet there will be an adjustment in the final 1.0 version, though how much will be based upon input from several different online tournament administrators and players, as well as the community at large.


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Old 08-14-2002, 08:45 AM   #51
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I'd thought of that before, but in practice it makes your frames drop into the floor because of the white "aura" your model gets when you go into a duel. I'm going to see about whether there is a more primitive model that can be used for all auras, such as the Dark Rage, Absorb, etc. auras.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
An idea for your Mod Artifex,

Multiple duels in FFA mode would be a good idea, without them I find that FFA turns into a brawl.


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Old 08-14-2002, 08:49 AM   #52
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Re: Brilliant ...

Don't worry, I'm committed to upgrading and modifying ProMod for the long haul. I've been jotting down additions and minor changes for several days now which will go into the final 1.0 version.

Quote:
Originally posted by Shaggy1984
First thing : Awesome Mod artifex

Now what im hoping is that you continue on with this mod. It has the potential to be huge great if you assemble a little team together and send out gradual updates, little extra features per update. Anyway thats just my wishes and i understand wholly if you do not wish too.

Anyway people Hats off to artifex


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Old 08-14-2002, 08:54 AM   #53
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I'm already looking at being able to knock down saber throws with a well-aimed Force Push in the final 1.0 version. I'm also considering a server command that will scale the kick damage as well.

As far as a grappling hook goes, I'd like to hear what all the competition players have to say about that. That would seem to give a huge edge to gunners IMO.

Quote:
Originally posted by crazyplaya73
Well it sounds interesting but many of us are hooked on Jedimod which un-nerfs most of the special moves and it allows you to lower kick damage and knock down a saber throw. Plus all the added visual stuff like model scaling and emotes adds to the fun. And the grappling hook is the sh*t.

Since the Jedimod source code is pubic would you concider putting some of the jedimod code into your mod?


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Old 08-14-2002, 10:26 AM   #54
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Re: Re: Re: WOW

Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX
My server's running 1.04, but I don't see any reason it won't run with 1.03, as all 1.03 did was change multiplayer balance. I do seem to remember some bug fixes from 1.02 to 1.03 though. Also, a different version than what is on the server may cause problems with servers that are running "pure", but that goes for any mod, not just ProMod.

1.04 changed protocols and things too I think, a lot of mods wont run on 1.03/1.02 now.


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Old 08-14-2002, 10:30 AM   #55
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Glad you're considering things like that. I believe someone suggested that raised damage, relying on the CoC, would end battles too quickly. You have a point, but I think there's something else you should consider.

Firstly, nerfing guns will never fly. The imperial flechette already takes a few good hits to use well, as do the other explosive weapons. Granted, because they have a large splash damage, you get a lot of leniency on where you fire and how you attack someone. The imperial flechette doesn't explode until it makes contact or goes it's max range, but we can basically call it the most versatile of the guns, as it can create a mine field in seconds, and kill at point blank range in one hit. However, the guns still require aiming, and against other guns they aren't a problem. Imagine playing a game where someone fires five or six rockets at you, and even though your body is being flung helplessly from place to place, you pull some move and end up with a victory. !?!?!?!. That would anger a great many people.

Against sabers, it's a different story. Not because the gun is too powerful, but because the saber isn't powerful enough. Even at 1.02 values, or slightly above, on average, the damage a saberist can deliver would probably be equal to a wookie bowcaster shot or two. Remember, if you don't hit a person dead on, the damage is decreased. Playing JK2++, it's almost necessary to use force speed because that's what most gunners use to dominate. If you aren't moving faster than normal, all guns will dominate you. Because you use speed, you are always able to catch up with a gunner if they engage in combat. However, why would you ever use a lightsaber in that situation if he dealt more damage than you ever could, and not only that, but his weapon has a huge blast radius, meaning he doesn't have to be nearly as precise as you. Meanwhile, you have to run through his armageddon, slash him, and procure an average of 40 points of damage. You were better off selecting the stormtrooper rifle... you could have done more damage more quickly and you could have kept range.

Also, with the CoC, I understand that with high damage, unless your blocking is dead on, a lot of people are going to be dying very quickly. Well, on the flipside, when everyone starts to the play the mod more frequently, and they start to get GOOD (not average, but GOOD) with the CoC, then the lower damage will make saber fights almost too long. I envision people switching to heavy stance more frequently because it would be able to break guards more frequently, and it would be the only stance that could finish the job quickly. Again, it is more of a preference. Do you enjoy a battle where two elite gamers can make saber battles fifteen minutes long, each hitting each other about five or six times, or would you rather see two elite games blocking very well, but the first one to slip up or get faked out falls? The JK2++ settings are not exorbitant. People survive against lethal sabers for more than 2 seconds. Because kicks exist, and there is such a thing as rolling and force jumping out of the way of erratic swinging, saber battles have evolved into more of a precise timing and hitting. Even though blocking is still the old screwy style, if you don't think, and decide to just swing your saber, you'll be surprised when your opponent's swing beats you to the punch and either kills you or reduces you to minimal health. This system also almost completely negates the problems inherent with force drain, and force heal. While the powers have always been asked by the community to be nerfed, it doesn't have to be changed in range or nerfed by much (okay, force heal needed an adjustment), because with high damage, as long as you stick on your opponent, you will procure a kill quickly. No more typing stuff like "stop running and healing". Instead, you have direct results.

In short, give the lightsaber the power of the imperial flechette damage range, and I feel you'll see excellent gameplay change. The lightsaber would then be truly feared, and not seen as a weapon that can be second guessed and ultimately overpowered by gunners. It is NOT easy to kill a gunner or anyone with higher saber damage. This is fluff. I have played this way for a month and half now, saber only, and I can tell you that a large majority of JK2++ players do not and cannot amass large amounts of kills using a lightsaber. Guns are still the much much much easier way to win. However, if you're dedicated to this style, you can become quite a surprise to the gunners, and somewhat effective.

Just to clarify though, I'm not trying to promote another mod, but rather promote higher saber damage. I'd suggest this level of saber damage to ANY mod that exists. The replies I get are usually the same: "unbalanced, die too quickly, etc.". In the beginning, yes, you will die quickly. But when players get GOOD, and the damage isn't high, what you get is entire marathons of two player models grunting from saber damage. I have no doubt that skill is involved, but if you get to higher levels, and the saber damage can be predicted and considered reasonable damage in a trade off, the skill will gradually drop until it's too elite players trying to guess which way they can trade hits and come out on top. If ALL the stances are quite fatal, then you'll be switching stances for their styles and moves, and more rarely on how much damage you can deal.
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Old 08-14-2002, 10:59 AM   #56
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just a couple things: why can't you push projectiles anymore and it seems as though sometimes i block dfa and other times i dont, even when i am looking directly at them
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Old 08-14-2002, 11:08 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
Glad you're considering things like that. I believe someone ... If ALL the stances are quite fatal, then you'll be switching stances for their styles and moves, and more rarely on how much damage you can deal.
I think adding damage to a saber swing vs. anyone that doesn't have a saber ready would take care of your problem--which is definitely valid. It looks as if most jk2 tournaments these days are either 1v1 duels or CTF matches, and I want to make both camps happy. This seems like a good way of going about that.


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Old 08-14-2002, 11:14 AM   #58
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ArtifeX, I'm serious about going to jedibattlefield.com to promote your MOD. I hear you've sent an email to teamwarfare.... The admin of the twl (conveniently part of team Valar, and site developer of jedibattlefield.com) has posted a message up with name: ProMod. It seemed I was the only one that knew the details about it, no one knows about it in that forum, go check it out. here's a link to that specific message.

http://www.jedibattlefield.com/forum...s=&threadid=54


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Old 08-14-2002, 11:46 AM   #59
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Begger ->

just posted over at jedibattlefield. Hopefully that will generate some interest.

Let me encourage all those who enjoy the mod to spread the word!


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Old 08-14-2002, 11:52 AM   #60
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just saw the post, and dragon has already responded by giving us your ip and encouraged everyone to try the mod now. lol. You may see a lot of Valar, Dsbr, SofD guys parading around there soon. lol


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Old 08-14-2002, 12:17 PM   #61
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That's good news. Now i've just got to quit coding long enough to get some practice! Got beaten a few times last night in my own mod! Ack! The indignity!

Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Begger
just saw the post, and dragon has already responded by giving us your ip and encouraged everyone to try the mod now. lol. You may see a lot of Valar, Dsbr, SofD guys parading around there soon. lol


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Old 08-14-2002, 12:19 PM   #62
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Unhappy Another ting i noticed,

I'm colour blind ok, and the red crosshair is bloody impossible to see for me on most maps, how about bright green or blue. Most maps clash with the crosshair really bad for me.

I know we colour blind folk are a rare breed but i think it may be why i find this mod so hard to play with.

Also, is it possible to alter the Y co-ordinates for the crosshair, as i naturally look down to get a feel for the distance to opponent, pointing up at the chest is too disorientating for me.

The other question is, was this mod intended to balance guns versus sabres because with default settings, saberdamagescale 1 its like a 1 hit kill mod. It feels liek every win or loss i get is down to pure luck. Suffice to say I'm a duellist and I'm used to long fights.

I really am starting to get bad vibes about this mod, despite how ingenious the combat system is. It just feels like too radical a departure from the previous incarnations and mods.

Oh god, I hate to be the party pooper....


Peace & Ting

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Old 08-14-2002, 12:23 PM   #63
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noo!! damn you you party pooper!!! lol just kidding. everyone is entitled to their opinion, there is bound to be SOME negative comments on here, I'm just glad that the first one is give calmly without a flame.


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Old 08-14-2002, 12:34 PM   #64
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Quote:
As far as a grappling hook goes, I'd like to hear what all the competition players have to say about that. That would seem to give a huge edge to gunners IMO.
The grappling hook would work for competition if:

1) You can not use any force power while using the hook

2) You cannot attack while using the hook with the saber or a gun

3) You can not use the hook in the middle of an attack (heh so long distance DFA's are not possible even tho its hella fun)

4) And you could have the hook use up a small amount of force energy
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Old 08-14-2002, 12:49 PM   #65
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Re: Another ting i noticed,

Quote:
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
I'm colour blind ok, and the red crosshair is bloody impossible to see for me on most maps, how about bright green or blue. Most maps clash with the crosshair really bad for me.

I know we colour blind folk are a rare breed but i think it may be why i find this mod so hard to play with.
I've written a note to myself to make both the beginning and end color customizable through console commands. That work for ya?

Quote:

Also, is it possible to alter the Y co-ordinates for the crosshair, as i naturally look down to get a feel for the distance to opponent, pointing up at the chest is too disorientating for me.
Hmm, that might require some wacky math, which might give a little hit in performance to an already cpu-intensive game like jk2. That will alter your aim behind you when doing backsweeps/stabs as well, so you'd actually end up having to look down at the floor to hit someone squarely with it. Is that what you'd want? I'll investigate it.

Quote:

The other question is, was this mod intended to balance guns versus sabres because with default settings, saberdamagescale 1 its like a 1 hit kill mod. It feels liek every win or loss i get is down to pure luck. Suffice to say I'm a duellist and I'm used to long fights.
I've given myself the task of balancing out saber/saber and gun/saber combat in the final version. I'm most likely going to have two different damage scale properties that will allow server admins to adjust the damages to their liking. I'm still going to have the defaults set to an agreeable-as-possible scale.

I am a little curious about the 1 hit kills you're experiencing. In a couple hours of play last night on the official server, i never saw a 1 hit kill happen unless it was a well-struck DFA.

Quote:

I really am starting to get bad vibes about this mod, despite how ingenious the combat system is. It just feels like too radical a departure from the previous incarnations and mods.

Oh god, I hate to be the party pooper....
What you need to ask yourself is, "Is this better than 1.04 for competition? Is this better than the other mods available for competion?" I think so, even at this beta stage. Other mods just let you tweak existing logic like damages for specific moves or the amount of Force used for different Powers. None of them actually fix what was wrong with the game initially, at least in my experience.

Don't give up on ProMod. It's only been out in beta for 24 hours now. Things like how much damage the saber does and the color of the crosshair can be adjusted with user feedback. The core of ProMod is the CSC, which I think solves 99% of the gameplay problems of the original release and successive patches. No other mod has truly addressed them.


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Old 08-14-2002, 01:06 PM   #66
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Thumbs up Cool

Well I must say I'm surprised I expected to get flamed for my comments.

Glad to hear you are taking them on board, when i say one hit kills, perhaps I was exagerating... but I mean like two yellow hits in a split second and pooof you are all but dead, eeeek.
You know the sort of shimmy in yellow the horizontal strokes that is.

All the things you said you will be implementing pretty much address the comments made by regulars on our server so best of luck getting them done.

For the mean time, I'll be running the promod during the day time and reverting to jedimod at evening for the free for alls so we can prance about like pschotic yodas.

Oh yeah - an idea, for multi duels how about an icon similar to in team ffa that only shows up for the person you are duelling, that could work i spose..... and that wouldnt sap cpu time either or at least no where near as much.


Peace & Ting

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Old 08-14-2002, 01:22 PM   #67
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Re: Cool

Quote:
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
Well I must say I'm surprised I expected to get flamed for my comments.

Glad to hear you are taking them on board, when i say one hit kills, perhaps I was exagerating... but I mean like two yellow hits in a split second and pooof you are all but dead, eeeek.
You know the sort of shimmy in yellow the horizontal strokes that is.
hehehehe. sounds like you got tagged (or did the tagging) pretty well.
That medium left-right-left shimmy is great, but it forces you to pretty much stand in place--which can be dangerous, especially in a team game.

Quote:

All the things you said you will be implementing pretty much address the comments made by regulars on our server so best of luck getting them done.

For the mean time, I'll be running the promod during the day time and reverting to jedimod at evening for the free for alls so we can prance about like pschotic yodas.

Oh yeah - an idea, for multi duels how about an icon similar to in team ffa that only shows up for the person you are duelling, that could work i spose..... and that wouldnt sap cpu time either or at least no where near as much.
Good idea. I'm definitely going to implement that or something similar whether i do multiple ffa duels or not.


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Old 08-14-2002, 01:36 PM   #68
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I went there, but no one was there. Waited 15 min, someone ended up joining, but got kicked because of a bad pak file.

Only difference I saw was that you don't need to doubple tap jump to backflip off walls now. I didn't see that "power meter" for the saber...perhaps it's only if you are attacking someone?


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Old 08-14-2002, 01:38 PM   #69
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Correct, you'll only see it when someone with a saber equipped is within range and is in your front-facing 180-degree field of vision. Keep trying back, I should be in there myself later today.


Quote:
Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
I went there, but no one was there. Waited 15 min, someone ended up joining, but got kicked because of a bad pak file.

Only difference I saw was that you don't need to doubple tap jump to backflip off walls now. I didn't see that "power meter" for the saber...perhaps it's only if you are attacking someone?


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Old 08-14-2002, 01:40 PM   #70
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Gotcha. Hey, speaking of ASC.....I joined a server the other day and there was a SC member in it!


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Old 08-14-2002, 01:41 PM   #71
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OMG. Who's it that's got the cajones to wear that tag?

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Originally posted by RpTheHotrod
Gotcha. Hey, speaking of ASC.....I joined a server the other day and there was a SC member in it!


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Old 08-14-2002, 02:11 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deetox187
i used hotmail to register.
I got this message.

Due to the insane amount of Hotmail emails that get bounced back to us due to inactive accounts, we currently do not accept people who sign up with a Hotmail e-mail address. We're very sorry for the inconvenience. You sign up with other free services except Yahoo, or use your ISP e-mail account. Note: we will NEVER sell your email address.

So I don't believe you :P
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Old 08-14-2002, 02:35 PM   #73
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OMG. Who's it that's got the cajones to wear that tag?
Sounds like someone does.
Quote:
Hmm, that might require some wacky math, which might give a little hit in performance to an already cpu-intensive game like jk2. That will alter your aim behind you when doing backsweeps/stabs as well, so you'd actually end up having to look down at the floor to hit someone squarely with it. Is that what you'd want? I'll investigate it.
Could Jah Warrior just alter his view with the cg_thirdpersonvertoffset +/-** command? How would that effect the CSC system?


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Old 08-14-2002, 02:38 PM   #74
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I'm not completely sure, but I'd guess that it wouldn't affect the actual aiming location of the crosshair. Only problem is that I think it's cheat protected.

Quote:
Originally posted by razorace

Sounds like someone does.

Could Jah Warrior just alter his view with the cg_thirdpersonvertoffset +/-** command? How would that effect the CSC system?


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Old 08-14-2002, 02:43 PM   #75
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You could uncheat protect it if it's a fix for his request.


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Old 08-14-2002, 02:50 PM   #76
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I could, but that would take a bit more than just de-protecting it. It could really be abused to look around corners, look behind you, etc. There were definitely reasons it was protected in the first place. I'll see what I can do, though.

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Originally posted by razorace
You could uncheat protect it if it's a fix for his request.


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Old 08-14-2002, 03:16 PM   #77
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Just tried it out now, and it seems to be a BIG improvement over regular 1.04. Every stance seems useful. The CSC seems to me to be a rather subtle change, but seems to result in a drastic reduction in blocking. Then again, my aim is bad

Bots seem to be butchered with relative ease, contrary to some opinion - perhaps it's because of their tendency to charge right at you.


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Old 08-14-2002, 03:34 PM   #78
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lol..I think their discriminating against you tree. I think they just don't like trees.


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Old 08-14-2002, 03:38 PM   #79
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I have to echo Redwyng's sentiments, it's great to not have to hack at somebody 8 times to kill them. I found myself having to think and adjust my techniques constantly, which is a great thing

The blocking seems just about right. And it's nice to be able to actually use the blue stance to inflict some damage

Very nice ArtifeX

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Old 08-14-2002, 03:41 PM   #80
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Artifex! I thought you were dead and quit the JK2 scene!

Glad to see you're back and hard at work... ; )

Hey, I say crank out all the mods you want, the community can only benefit from new stuff like this, I'd love to try it out sometime!

Then we can write strategy pages for this mod and others. Up to this point all I'd been seeing are constant rehashes of the Raven-released source with minor changes... for once this mod sounds like it's going to be really different and require different strategies. Good luck refining and perfecting it to what you want.
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