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Old 08-21-2002, 11:43 AM   #241
blackfire
 
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Quote:
It ISN'T unblockable. There's absorb. Push. Strafe. Or a strong axe/light lunge as they come at you.
Can't you just make kick blockable? Or is this not possible?

Personally, I am getting tired of kick flipping off small ledges though, due to the one tap jump as it is now.

Also, is there any chance of implementing the mid-jump kick off of walls ability? As in your in the middle of a jump near a wall and being able to kick off of it.
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Old 08-21-2002, 12:50 PM   #242
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Perhaps a foolish question...

But is there any way to re-write the code so that saber-wielding SP NPC's use the same combat system? Or are we forever doomed to use randomly generated numbers to determine the outcome of my single player saber fights? I enjoy this mod not only for the challenge it presents, but also because it has a greater semblance to the duels from the movies, where each hit didn't knock off a little health, but seriously wounded or killed the opponent. These duels lasted a lot long than most duels in the game (approx. 1 minute).

AND If it is possible, do you plan on converting the code any time soon?

Thank you.


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Old 08-21-2002, 02:46 PM   #243
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Hi,

My name is Drepanon. I am one of the people who did not like the Raven patches..... I was busy playing the game and learning to counter moves while others were busy crying and getting patches. oops... Live and learn. I also do not suffer from the herd mentality.

Since 1.02a i have hosted 6 Dedicated 1.02 servers in an attempt to keep the 1.02 commity alive. What i want to say is directed to the 1.02 players out there. Get this Mod!

I personally am going to do everything in my power to support the development of this project. I have already dedicated a FFA and a NF Duel server to the cause. All servers are PIII 1.2GHZ with a 10mb connection.

Players that still frequent my servers will find that they are set up the same exact way as the 1.02 servers I am hosting. I plan to have a CTF~ProMod server up this week. My servers are all Saber ONLY with the exception of the CTF (contains some other weapons).

1.04 Promod Servers:
209.204.71.201:28070
209.204.71.201:28071

ProMod is the answer for 1.02 players that would like to enjoy the stability and enhancments the patches did address while preserving the feel of 1.02.

For me ProMod saved this game from a dark and dusty place on my shelf next to some other patched-to-death games.

Drep
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Old 08-21-2002, 02:54 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drepanon
Hi,

My name is Drepanon. I am one of the people who did not like the Raven patches..... I was busy playing the game and learning to counter moves while others were busy crying and getting patches. oops... Live and learn. I also do not suffer from the herd mentality.

Since 1.02a i have hosted 6 Dedicated 1.02 servers in an attempt to keep the 1.02 commity alive. What i want to say is directed to the 1.02 players out there. Get this Mod!

I personally am going to do everything in my power to support the development of this project. I have already dedicated a FFA and a NF Duel server to the cause. All servers are PIII 1.2GHZ with a 10mb connection.

Players that still frequent my servers will find that they are set up the same exact way as the 1.02 servers I am hosting. I plan to have a CTF~ProMod server up this week. My servers are all Saber ONLY with the exception of the CTF (contains some other weapons).

1.04 Promod Servers:
209.204.71.201:28070
209.204.71.201:28071

ProMod is the answer for 1.02 players that would like to enjoy the stability and enhancments the patches did address while preserving the feel of 1.02.

For me ProMod saved this game from a dark and dusty place on my shelf next to some other patched-to-death games.

Drep
Glad to see you join the ProMod movement Drep!


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Old 08-21-2002, 03:07 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally posted by Noctroglyph

1. Make a server option that makes the "kill" command take a few seconds to execute...
This is on my list already, but I'm not sure if it'll make it into Beta 2. I'll try.

Quote:

2. Add messages to the server messaging system that credits people for:

- Returning the flag a few second before the capture
- Counts an enemy kill within a certain distance from the flag or carrier as a defense, and
- One that gives you the "HOLY ****!" credit for returning the flag within 10ft of the enemy's flagpole.
These are good ideas, and certainly weren't on my list already. I'll have to evaluate how difficult these would be before I can tell you which version they'll be in.

Quote:

Adding messages to the logs for these items will allow stats coders to devise scoring schemes more tailored to CTF games...
Again, good idea. Not sure when this'll be in, but at some point it will be.

Quote:

3. Add a switchable typekill warning that would allow admins to autokick people that kill typers that have been in a messagebox more than "n" seconds.
hmm. this'd be pretty controvercial, and would have to be implemented with great care. Don't expect this in beta 2, but maybe in a later version.


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Old 08-21-2002, 03:16 PM   #246
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When I say unblockable, i mean that when someone connects with this, there is no defense against it. Avoidance and dodging are always a viable defense, but don't constitute making something "blockable". The range of the double tap kick is still just ludicrous. No kick should have longer range than than the saber does.

Quote:
Originally posted by Noctroglyph
That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. It ISN'T unblockable. There's absorb. Push. Strafe. Or a strong axe/light lunge as they come at you...


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Old 08-21-2002, 03:34 PM   #247
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I wouldn't consider doing this unless I had a decent looking kick-deflection animation. It is possible to make it blockable, though. Look pretty silly if you blocked somebody's foot with your saber.

Quote:
Originally posted by blackfire


Can't you just make kick blockable? Or is this not possible?

Personally, I am getting tired of kick flipping off small ledges though, due to the one tap jump as it is now.

Also, is there any chance of implementing the mid-jump kick off of walls ability? As in your in the middle of a jump near a wall and being able to kick off of it.


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Old 08-21-2002, 03:37 PM   #248
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I'd love to port ProMod to the single player game, but Raven's never released the code. The multiplayer bots use the CSC system very well with their inhumanly accurate aim currently. At some point, if I get enough requests, I may rewrite the bot ai to scale their aiming ability based on their difficulty setting to better serve as practice opponents. Just have to wait for single player though.

Quote:
Originally posted by Stan_Tencza
Perhaps a foolish question...

But is there any way to re-write the code so that saber-wielding SP NPC's use the same combat system? Or are we forever doomed to use randomly generated numbers to determine the outcome of my single player saber fights? I enjoy this mod not only for the challenge it presents, but also because it has a greater semblance to the duels from the movies, where each hit didn't knock off a little health, but seriously wounded or killed the opponent. These duels lasted a lot long than most duels in the game (approx. 1 minute).

AND If it is possible, do you plan on converting the code any time soon?

Thank you.


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Old 08-21-2002, 04:47 PM   #249
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Well, let me be the first to request that you rewrite the bot ai to scale their aiming ability based on their difficulty setting. I love playing ze bots with your mod but it's pretty damn hard with their ungodly aim. Once again, thanks for the excellent mod ..... best thing since sliced bread i say!
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Old 08-21-2002, 04:48 PM   #250
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I disagree. I don't think the Bot aim is prefect even on the highest skill level. In addition, I believe the Bot aim does scale with difficultly level. On the lower levels, the bots look like they're trying to miss you.


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Old 08-21-2002, 04:51 PM   #251
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I'll turn on my debugging code and see if they produce lower results at lower skill levels. I seem to remember that a level 3 bot was just as good as a level 5, or was so similar as to be unnoticeable. Didn't test level 1 though, so you're probably right on that one.

Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
I disagree. I don't think the Bot aim is prefect even on the highest skill level. In addition, I believe the Bot aim does scale with difficultly level. On the lower levels, the bots look like they're trying to miss you.


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Old 08-21-2002, 05:07 PM   #252
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Would it be possible to add a function where the server sends a chat message whenever a player executes a custom script? Would be both great and interresting, since it is impossible to prevent people using scripts.

FatalStrike... keep talking about that red footspeed... I don't want him to forget... red is close to useless in ProMod as it is.

I like that you have to switch styles because they both attack and defend differently, but it can be a pain cycling through the styles. Could you add a style up and a style down bind? Or just a bind for each style to make it really great?

I experimented with kicking... it works great in promod... you can still kick someone to death but it takes longer now and not as easy. I like the single press of the jump button for kick since it removes the edge for those people who like using scripts, plus the range is not as great.

I was wondering if you would add some new specials? I am thinking of a forward thrust, kinda like the backstab... perhaps for blue style.


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Old 08-21-2002, 05:12 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX
Describe the sequence of moves to me and I'll see if I can duplicate it.
A Forward jumpkick starting your swing right as you go back. You go into your heavy DFA and it does like a little downward slash, it doesnt go into the heavy dfa anymore.
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Old 08-21-2002, 05:22 PM   #254
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Hmm, do you know if that worked in 1.02 before the single-tap kick was removed? I'm willing to bet that that's a bug with the double-tap kicking code. Also, does your guy hit the ground before you start the DFA, or not?

Quote:
Originally posted by DarthCobra


A Forward jumpkick starting your swing right as you go back. You go into your heavy DFA and it does like a little downward slash, it doesnt go into the heavy dfa anymore.


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Old 08-21-2002, 06:29 PM   #255
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I wouldn't consider doing this unless I had a decent looking kick-deflection animation. It is possible to make it blockable, though. Look pretty silly if you blocked somebody's foot with your saber.
If I were fighting some with a saber, that's exactly what I would do if they were foolish enough to try to kick me. And hopefully with a little luck, take their foot off with it. It would sure teach them some caution in choosing when to kick.

Everyone keeps talking about extra range with the double tap kick, I guess I just never noticed it. Is there a way to just decrease the range and keep the double tap?

Also is there any chance to my other question about wall kicking?

On to a different subject, I have noticed that since I've been running Promod that my map rotation doesn't rotate unless someone wins the duel limit. Before, it used to rotate after the timelimit was done for the set number of duels, regardless of whether anyone was in the server or not. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the mod or not, just thought I'd mention it.


Now for the bad news, a couple of days after I installed Promod, my server attendance has dropped to near zero. What's going on with people? Before it was almost always busy. I love your mod, but it's almost not worth keeping my server going at this rate.
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Old 08-21-2002, 06:42 PM   #256
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Most duel players are pretty dumb(maybe it's the wait times?) and NEVER i mean NEVER have auto dl enabled. What i sugest is instructions on how to enable it in your motd, in COLOR so people will notice it.
Also a link to one of the promod sites would be good as ppl often ask "what does this mod do?". remember once they play it, most will get hooked.
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Old 08-21-2002, 06:53 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally posted by blackfire


If I were fighting some with a saber, that's exactly what I would do if they were foolish enough to try to kick me. And hopefully with a little luck, take their foot off with it. It would sure teach them some caution in choosing when to kick.

Everyone keeps talking about extra range with the double tap kick, I guess I just never noticed it. Is there a way to just decrease the range and keep the double tap?

Also is there any chance to my other question about wall kicking?
Yes, I could probably enable the double-tap for walls only. Have to see if I have time to squeeze that in before beta 2 release.

Quote:

On to a different subject, I have noticed that since I've been running Promod that my map rotation doesn't rotate unless someone wins the duel limit. Before, it used to rotate after the timelimit was done for the set number of duels, regardless of whether anyone was in the server or not. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the mod or not, just thought I'd mention it.
Check to see if the server.cfg file that's in the promod directory is different from the one in your base directory.

Quote:

Now for the bad news, a couple of days after I installed Promod, my server attendance has dropped to near zero. What's going on with people? Before it was almost always busy. I love your mod, but it's almost not worth keeping my server going at this rate.
Well, this is still in the beta phase, and a lot of people get frightened off by that. Had I just released it as a non-beta, more people might have initially tried it, but they would have been very critical of any bugs for that "final" version.

Once I finish Beta 2 sometime this weekend, shacknews.com, bluesnews.com and jkii.net have all said they'll run articles on it, which should boost the visibility.

Strangely enough, some french gaming magazine contacted me yesterday for permission to put Beta 1 on their next included cd. I'm going to talk to some other gaming mags to see if I can get them to do the same here in the states once I've got a final version.

One thing i've noticed looking at the server listings is that the lion's share of jk2 servers are empty, whether they're running a mod or not. I think that the patches have driven off many of the dedicated players. Everyone just needs to spread the word as much as possible, and then we can expect an infusion of the old-school players.


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Old 08-21-2002, 07:25 PM   #258
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Since blues news has already today posted an article on it's site about promod I suggest we start spreading the news by adding a few posts there talking about what a great mod it is.
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Old 08-21-2002, 07:51 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX

Yes, I could probably enable the double-tap for walls only. Have to see if I have time to squeeze that in before beta 2 release.
Really i don't see the point in that. If you are fliping off the walls you have the following problems:

1. You press forward aginsed the wall and jump. Why not jump FIRST, clear the wall and be done with it

That's about it, i really don't think it's that much of an adjustment, single tap wall kicks really arent much of a problem, if anything it just confuses your opponent. Hardly anyone uses wall jumps effectivly in duels.
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Old 08-22-2002, 05:29 AM   #260
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Hi ArtifeX,

nice work on that Mod. Count me in on the ProMod community
Good to see you back, too.

I would like to get back to a point earlier mentioned:

Cycling through saber stances.
With your mod, changing stances is even more important than before. Being a red/yellow user in vanilla 1.04 I still tend to use red a lot. I already figured that I need to switch to another stance
to block more effectively, since red blocking is not very effective (as it should be btw).

So I wonder if there is a way to make each stance selectable with a single key rather that cycling through them. Or maybe have it cycling in both directions like the inventory. So you could maybe use the mousewheel to cycle up or down. This way you could switch back and forth between two stances easier.

Double tap kicking
As for double tap kicking I must say that I actually like the idea of having double taps: first of all it takes care of that annoying kicking off small lips. Secondly it seems more logical: kicking is actually two movements, jumping up and then kicking in mid-air, so its one tap for the jump and one for the kick.

While I personally also agree with Noctroglyph that there are plenty ways to dodge and/or avoid kicks and I also think that ducking and doing a yellow or blue overhead chop while the kicker jumps over you IS an effective counter attack, I can understand that you don't want to have it in your mod (coming from 1.02 as you are).

Maybe it is possible to make kick selectably single or double tap (I think that has been done for some other mod?), and at the same time decrease range for it like suggested by someone else before?

Spreading the word
I am member of the Jedi Academy (http://academy.jediknightii.net), an institution that is very much about teaching students decent saber fighting. When the Beta2 is finished, I am planning on bringing your Mod to the Academy's Jedi Council's attention, I believe that it is a great mod not only for competitive play but also as a learning enviroment.


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Old 08-22-2002, 06:10 AM   #261
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Quote:
Hmm, do you know if that worked in 1.02 before the single-tap kick was removed? I'm willing to bet that that's a bug with the double-tap kicking code. Also, does your guy hit the ground before you start the DFA, or not?
im not sure about 1.02....never found out about that back then. Only started using it in 1.03. Basically, the you can swing your sabre when you are in the back fliping motion of the kick so by pressing attack+forward +jump when you are about to hit the ground will cause your model to lauch into a dfa as soon as you land. i always thought its the same as starting a heavyswing flipping backwards and then DFAing when landing so i dont think its a bug with double tap kick, but like most times i'm prolly wrong
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Old 08-22-2002, 11:24 AM   #262
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Old 08-22-2002, 11:32 AM   #263
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Quote:
Originally posted by thehomicidalegg


im not sure about 1.02....never found out about that back then. Only started using it in 1.03. Basically, the you can swing your sabre when you are in the back fliping motion of the kick so by pressing attack+forward +jump when you are about to hit the ground will cause your model to lauch into a dfa as soon as you land. i always thought its the same as starting a heavyswing flipping backwards and then DFAing when landing so i dont think its a bug with double tap kick, but like most times i'm prolly wrong
hehe that is the famous tactic of pull+kick+dfa ... lethal combo and really an exploit, so I hope you will NOT fix that issue When you learn to do that combo people can only watch as you saber them down when they are knocked over... bad for gameplay.


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Old 08-22-2002, 09:31 PM   #264
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Not an issue

Actually the pull+kick+dfa isn't a problem anymore in 1.04 since you can push while you are knocked down on the ground.

Plus, in Promod you CAN'T knock someone down with a frontkick anymore (actually it does happen about 5% of the time, not enought to expolit the tactic) so it's doubley not a problem. . .if that's even a word.
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:32 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
I disagree. I don't think the Bot aim is prefect even on the highest skill level. In addition, I believe the Bot aim does scale with difficultly level. On the lower levels, the bots look like they're trying to miss you.
BOT aim is perfect on the highest scale. They just aren't too bright.

I've set bots for they're max before and spec'ed them. They're crosshairs essentially lock onto a target and stay until for whatever reason they change targets...

It seems on the lower levels bots give up this lock on a increasingly random basis as the skill level goes down. But even the noskill bots when they do lock, they got it right on, but they won't hold it long.
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:37 PM   #266
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Just wanted to announce yet another server to the promod family .


Praxeum Knights CTF - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28080
Jedi vs Merc Enabled
Master Force Setting

http://www.lowgrav.org

16 Slot T-1 Connected Server
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:54 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally posted by KnightHawk420


BOT aim is perfect on the highest scale. They just aren't too bright.

I've set bots for they're max before and spec'ed them. They're crosshairs essentially lock onto a target and stay until for whatever reason they change targets...

It seems on the lower levels bots give up this lock on a increasingly random basis as the skill level goes down. But even the noskill bots when they do lock, they got it right on, but they won't hold it long.
That maybe true for the highest difficult level, but I'm pretty sure on the lower difficults their aim isn't perfect. You can chase down bots and they'll continuously miss (this is while they're "locked" onto you.) as they backpedal away and fire like manics.

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Old 08-22-2002, 11:56 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace


That maybe true for the highest difficult level, but I'm pretty sure on the lower difficults their aim isn't perfect. You can chase down bots and they'll continuously miss (this is while they're "locked" onto you.) as they backpedal away and fire like manics.

Razor Ace
Well its largely how you define perfect... Just make a server spawn some lowly bots and spec them. When they're on, they're on, but they're movements are so random and erratic they don't spend enough time on you to make a hit. So yeah they continually do miss, but if you spec them, you'll see them just dead center right on someone, but then very quickly lose it.

The high level bots, simply don't lose it.
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Old 08-23-2002, 08:07 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally posted by KnightHawk420
Just wanted to announce yet another server to the promod family .


Praxeum Knights CTF - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28080
Jedi vs Merc Enabled
Master Force Setting

http://www.lowgrav.org

16 Slot T-1 Connected Server
Great to hear it knight. Hopefully, the ProMod Beta 2 juggernaut will steamroll over the resistance of the remaining 1.04 admins.

Speaking of which, I'm working my ass of trying to get the Beta 2 ready, but with my, my wife's and my son's birthdays all next week, this weekend is looking pretty tight. I may end up delaying the release until sometime late next week so that I can make sure to get all the content in it that I want. I may still be doing some closed beta testing this weekend, so the proclamation stands: if you wanna help, make sure you're in the servers playing and maybe I'll show up to draft some people.


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Old 08-23-2002, 08:19 AM   #270
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Correction on the CTF server info. Seeing as how enabling jedi vs merc makes team based servers go screwy, I have disabled that option and it is now just simply a full force all guns ctf server. enjoy.


Praxeum Knights Saber Only FFA - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28070

Praxeum Knights CTF - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28080

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Old 08-23-2002, 08:41 AM   #271
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ArtifeX, your mod is all about requiring skill, right? So I think that you should leave the single tap to wall-jump alone. It was a great thing you did to reverse an unnecesarry change, and ppl just need to use skill and pay attention to where they are jumping. I myself try to use wall jumping skillfully in a duel. I guess it's not too big a deal to double-tap, but I guess you will probably make it an option anyway. I just thought you did something great by bringing it back to the way it was, that's all.
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Old 08-23-2002, 12:23 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally posted by JediCrow
ArtifeX, your mod is all about requiring skill, right? So I think that you should leave the single tap to wall-jump alone. It was a great thing you did to reverse an unnecesarry change, and ppl just need to use skill and pay attention to where they are jumping. I myself try to use wall jumping skillfully in a duel. I guess it's not too big a deal to double-tap, but I guess you will probably make it an option anyway. I just thought you did something great by bringing it back to the way it was, that's all.
I've never had a problem with the single-tap either. It always seemed a simple thing to hit jump, then forward to get over a wall rather than forward, then jump. *shrug*

Still though, by making the front wall jump double tap, I can allow people to jump off the walls from much higher than they were before. I never really understood why they would limit you to jumping off the wall only when you were less than 1 meter from the ground. Why not allow someone 3 meters up a wall to do a backflip off of it? It shouldn't be a problem for someone who can jump 20 meters straight up.


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Old 08-24-2002, 05:22 PM   #273
Sabre9
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Post Promod tracking

194.117.138.240:28071
24.70.64.147:28070
61.207.153.157:1031
61.210.106.46:27980
151.204.81.7:24331
203.79.89.51:28075
24.162.247.233:28070
62.20.195.154:28070
62.251.67.40:53224
63.99.213.122:28070
64.154.191.6:28070
130.161.36.97:28070
131.156.174.50:28070
134.114.32.159:28070
195.139.52.130:28070
195.149.21.44:28082
206.169.69.25:28070
206.169.69.25:28080
209.54.74.216:28070
216.17.68.106:28072
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Old 08-24-2002, 10:53 PM   #274
Areoch
 
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Bravo Artifex

I have to admit first of all that I haven't tried the mod yet. But from what it hear it seems to give what everyone has been really looking for. The CSC system sounds fantastic.

It comes at an interesting time, I've recently reinstalled JKO and finding 1.02 to be more enjoyable than the patches even with its unbalanced guns/forces/sabers. If you can bring the feel of 1.02 with the added strategic element so that it doesn't turn into a pointless spam match then I am all for it. I can't wait until I can download it
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Old 08-25-2002, 06:01 PM   #275
Quiwan
 
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First off I think you mod is a step in the right direction. Saber fighting has really down hill since the new patches have came out. I donít know if any one else has brought up this idea, but if they did ill repeat it. My 2 Cents for the mod: If you want more realistic saber fighting change the run speed, or make it a disadvantage when some is sprinting towards you. Allow there hits to do more damage but have it difficult to hit there target. Maybe introduce a run/sprint key that when held down longer the player gets winded and has a harder time hitting a target. It just seems to me that when dueling you really donít see anyone constantly running around. Keep up the Great Work!!!!!
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:57 AM   #276
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Actually, in Beta 2, which is close to release, running towards your opponent will give you added attacking power, but it will also give you an equal and opposite defensive penalty. So, someone running at you is going to have to be very careful not to get nailed by a clever defender who sidesteps and takes advantage of that penalty. You'll actually get bonuses for walking as opposed to running, as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by Quiwan
First off I think you mod is a step in the right direction. Saber fighting has really down hill since the new patches have came out. I donít know if any one else has brought up this idea, but if they did ill repeat it. My 2 Cents for the mod: If you want more realistic saber fighting change the run speed, or make it a disadvantage when some is sprinting towards you. Allow there hits to do more damage but have it difficult to hit there target. Maybe introduce a run/sprint key that when held down longer the player gets winded and has a harder time hitting a target. It just seems to me that when dueling you really donít see anyone constantly running around. Keep up the Great Work!!!!!


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Old 08-26-2002, 12:40 PM   #277
mrlove
 
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here is another candy bar for the europeans

blueyonder Jedi Knight II #06 [duel] [promod] 194.117.138.240:28071

best server so far in europe... and jolt.co.uk removed theirs
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Old 08-26-2002, 12:40 PM   #278
mrlove
 
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here is another candy bar for the europeans

blueyonder Jedi Knight II #06 [duel] [promod] 194.117.138.240:28071

best server so far in europe... and jolt.co.uk removed theirs
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Old 08-26-2002, 12:55 PM   #279
Avirexx
 
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Err sorry if this has been asked but how do you install the Promod?
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Old 08-26-2002, 01:34 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally posted by Avirexx
Err sorry if this has been asked but how do you install the Promod?
Just unzip the file you downloaded into your {jk2 install folder}/GameData directory, then launch the game using the provided, "promod.bat" file, or in-game through the setup->mods controls.

You can also launch the game and search for ProMod servers much easier using qtracker (www.qtracker.com).


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