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Old 09-19-2002, 01:53 AM   #1
A2597
 
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Question Am I the only one that LIKES 1.04?

Seriously, I hated it for about an hour. then I figured it out, re-learned the saber, and now I love it. duals last longer, and require greater skill then in previous versions, spammers are easy to kill (FINALLY). overall, its just a load of more fun!


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Old 09-19-2002, 02:49 AM   #2
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i'm sure loads of others luuuurrrrrrrrve 1.04, but i recommend the promod. if you try that you'll never look back.
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:10 AM   #3
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In response to your topic, yes....Yes you are.
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Old 09-19-2002, 12:00 PM   #4
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i like 1.04 too, but i'm figuring out to learn promod



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Old 09-19-2002, 12:22 PM   #5
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I'm not convinced that you like 1.04. So I will go on believing that no one likes 1.04

I mean why would you like 1.04? All the good players are leaving because of it. Latest example of good player leaving, -V-Rage, the creator of JK++, and www.jedibattlefield.com left right along with him.


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Old 09-19-2002, 08:29 PM   #6
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All the good players? Jk2 is still thriving just as ever. Have you ever visited the Darkside servers? They are all full every night.

Darkside has some of the best duelers in Jedi Knight. I wouldn't say that all the good players are leaving.
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Old 09-19-2002, 08:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by thehomicidalegg
i'm sure loads of others luuuurrrrrrrrve 1.04, but i recommend the promod. if you try that you'll never look back.
Yep, I play promod a bit to, but I find just plain old JKii v 1.04 more enjoyable (With dismemberment, ghoul2, and the other suggestions in the ultimate saber fights thread).

I'll admit that I was a MUCH better saberist with 1.02 and 1.03, (No, didn't spam things like DFA and backstab, in fact, I only recently figured out the DFA move, LOL, and I almost never use it, because your a sitting duck for a few seconds )

1.04 just makes it a little bit more like SP IMO, with more autoblocking, but for the most part, you do have to block swings yourself (At least thats what I've noticed)

lots'o'fun


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Old 09-19-2002, 11:55 PM   #8
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JK++ server, GONE????????????????????

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Damn it, any other JK++ ctf server? I need to practice my sniping skills. Maybe I'll practice with Tribes 2.


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Old 09-20-2002, 04:06 AM   #9
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I don't mind it. I think some people are too picky. One thing changes and they say it isn't the same.


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Old 09-20-2002, 11:28 AM   #10
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I love playing version 1.04, and I agree with A2597 that with the right settings it can be a blast. For FFA I like the saber damage uped a little (damage X2 or 3) just to make the saber a more useful weapon for quick kills. I've only played a little bit with different mods, but I always seem to come back to vanilla JO. I mean, does everyone need double-bladed or two lightsabers? And as for people saying that things changed so drastically between versions, I think that is a bit silly. So they fixed (as in fixed collision detection) DFA and removed the automatic pull-backstab, it only drastically affects you if those were the only moves you did.

Everyone is leaving? Then who are all the people staying? There seems to be tons of servers of regular JO that are packed with people, and some great players at that. I usually end up near the top of the scores, but I still come across many people that are better than me. And so what if "the best" people are leaving? Who cares if some one is really good at a video game? Nerds? It's funny, but everytime someone beats me and starts taunting me, I get an image of the Comic Book Guy sitting in front of his computer saying "I've wasted my life" So stick with what version is fun for you. What else really matters? And what is it about v1.04 that is so terrible?
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Old 09-20-2002, 11:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cedrin
All the good players? Jk2 is still thriving just as ever. Have you ever visited the Darkside servers? They are all full every night.

Darkside has some of the best duelers in Jedi Knight. I wouldn't say that all the good players are leaving.
The best play ladders, the best clans dominate ladders, and the best clans are leaving.

Also being good at duels doens't mean anything. All the "great" duelers are so stuck on duel setting that when confronted in a multiple enemy setting they got rocked. This was more apparent in previous version where you couldn't block your backside but its still seen today.

If you want to be good at JKII you must be good at the following

-CTF weapons enabled
-FFA saber only and weapons
-Duel sabers and weapons

If you can do all of the above then you are awesome, if you think the amount of competition is decided only on "darkside saber only duels" then you suck at over all JKII.

Your saber v my gun means you DIE in JKII. So duel all you want, but the really great clans have left or are leaving soon. Because a bunch of wanna b jedi decided to dumb down the game.


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Old 09-20-2002, 11:36 AM   #12
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By the way claiming auto blocking is the ultimate noob creation by Raven. They did it so noobs would last more then 5 sec. The fact that anyone needed the game to help make up for their lack of ability and then claim it to be skilled is laughable.

how did raven make 1.04?

Take 1.02 and just add water!


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Old 09-20-2002, 12:02 PM   #13
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Take 1.02 and just add water!
That's the same drivel you've been peddling since 1.04's release Fatal, and it doesn't hold any of that water you've been going on about.

Raven listened to stupid folk who couldn't adapt, and made 1.03. And it was crap. Raven tried to fix it in 1.04. Stupid folk who couldn't adapt were very unhappy, and some of them are still whining about it to this day. Anyone who prefers 1.03 to 1.04 is quite simply a moron. QED.

People are leaving, yep. I've been considering leaving. Know why? It's not because 1.04 is a bad patch. It's because there are hardly any whining newbies left to bash. They all ran away when their precious 1.03 was scrapped.

-CTF weapons enabled
-FFA saber only and weapons
-Duel sabers and weapons

Yep, I win em all.

But Duel with weapons other than the sabre? Interesting idea. I wonder how long someone waving a bowcaster around would last in a duel...


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Old 09-20-2002, 12:17 PM   #14
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heh, I play a fair amount of force FFA, althought I don't really like weapons. (Never use them, just annoying until ya kill em, kinda like a fly buzzing in your ear)

select force + saber only ROCKS!

(By select I mean jump, saber throw, mind trick, seeing, speed, and a few others on, lightning and drain off)


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Old 09-20-2002, 12:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by FatalStrike


The best play ladders, the best clans dominate ladders, and the best clans are leaving.
...
If you want to be good at JKII you must be good at the following

-CTF weapons enabled
-FFA saber only and weapons
-Duel sabers and weapons
...

Your saber v my gun means you DIE in JKII. So duel all you want, but the really great clans have left or are leaving soon. Because a bunch of wanna b jedi decided to dumb down the game.
Sounds like what I predicted in the jedibattlefield forums is coming to pass. The top players are seeing that the "guns rule" atmosphere of jk2 teamplay isn't very enjoyable. There are tons of other FPS's that do guns better (ut2k3) if they want that type of gaming. The sabers are what truly set jk2 apart from other products, and the standard version saber combat is useless in a teamplay gametype due to its low damage and short range.

So why bother with competitive jk2? The guns are only so-so. The guns/force powers play style is pretty dumb in 1.04. It's always: grab projectile weapon, turn on either absorb+speed or speed+rage, and go do a flag run. Yawn. You could just play RuneQuake if you wanted to do that.

I told them that the saber would have to become useful in CTF and other weapons-enabled games for the game to maintain its uniqueness. Guess they finally conceded my point.

I'm committed to making jk2 team games unique and fun again.


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Old 09-20-2002, 12:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL


That's the same drivel you've been peddling since 1.04's release Fatal, and it doesn't hold any of that water you've been going on about.

Raven listened to stupid folk who couldn't adapt, and made 1.03. And it was crap. Raven tried to fix it in 1.04. Stupid folk who couldn't adapt were very unhappy, and some of them are still whining about it to this day. Anyone who prefers 1.03 to 1.04 is quite simply a moron. QED.
Yes it is the same thing I have said before and I still say it, 1.04 is watered down nonsense. Almost every single attacking strat is weaker.

Red stance is slower. It's DFA is a joke.
Yellow can't spin as fast, and can't chain as many attacks.
Blue can't lunge in the air.

All of the backstabs can't spin, even thought the change to force pull prevents you form falling down most of the time. Is there really a need for stoping the spinning if you can prevent yourself for falling down most of the time with ease?

Oh yeah and did I forget to mention I don't like 1.03. I don't even consider 1.03 a real patch, it was more of a mistake then anything else.

Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL

People are leaving, yep. I've been considering leaving. Know why? It's not because 1.04 is a bad patch. It's because there are hardly any whining newbies left to bash. They all ran away when their precious 1.03 was scrapped.
They didn't run away, they still play 1.03. 1.03 is the hell dimension of JKII. Its where evil players are sent to suffer out the remainder of their JKII lives.

Also I don't think many would leave the game due to lack of newbies. If anything 1.04 has more newbies then ever.


Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL

-CTF weapons enabled
-FFA saber only and weapons
-Duel sabers and weapons

Yep, I win em all.

But Duel with weapons other than the sabre? Interesting idea. I wonder how long someone waving a bowcaster around would last in a duel...
Bowcaster? You actually consider that a weapon?

But try pulling your saber out when I am holding a Heavy repeater, you would last about 15 seconds unless you bunny hopped around hoping I would waste my ammo, which would only make me wait you out before I killed you.

By the way if you win all those game types you kick @ss! I still get owned in CTF but I'm gettin there!


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Old 09-20-2002, 12:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Sounds like what I predicted in the jedibattlefield forums is coming to pass. The top players are seeing that the "guns rule" atmosphere of jk2 teamplay isn't very enjoyable. There are tons of other FPS's that do guns better (ut2k3) if they want that type of gaming. The sabers are what truly set jk2 apart from other products, and the standard version saber combat is useless in a teamplay gametype due to its low damage and short range.

So why bother with competitive jk2? The guns are only so-so. The guns/force powers play style is pretty dumb in 1.04. It's always: grab projectile weapon, turn on either absorb+speed or speed+rage, and go do a flag run. Yawn. You could just play RuneQuake if you wanted to do that.

I told them that the saber would have to become useful in CTF and other weapons-enabled games for the game to maintain its uniqueness. Guess they finally conceded my point.

I'm committed to making jk2 team games unique and fun again.
Exactly. The game has become guns OR saber and without saber in the mix the game goes from a great game to a average game.


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Old 09-20-2002, 05:22 PM   #18
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1.04 gets a lot better when you add Promod.
Promod is the way to go.

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Old 09-20-2002, 08:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
try pulling your saber out when I am holding a Heavy repeater
There are duel maps with repeaters on them? Where?

And you're right that 1.04 is slightly nerfed when compared to 1.02. But compared to 1.03, it's heaven. As for the red stance, it's still the most useful of the stances... but there are times when lighter stances are necessary. Why, I've dispatched many a skilled opponent just because I have changed stances, and they've stuck to one. I think that's quite balanced, personally.


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Old 09-21-2002, 12:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL


There are duel maps with repeaters on them? Where?

And you're right that 1.04 is slightly nerfed when compared to 1.02. But compared to 1.03, it's heaven. As for the red stance, it's still the most useful of the stances... but there are times when lighter stances are necessary. Why, I've dispatched many a skilled opponent just because I have changed stances, and they've stuck to one. I think that's quite balanced, personally.
I played a Weapons Mod that allowed Heavier Weapons in Duels, but I don't know is they have them on duel maps, I haven't ever seen a server that has duel weapons.

I don't disagree with the statement that 1.04 is pretty balanced, I just think that if you took ProMod blocking and 1.02 offense, you would have a what Raven should have done in the first place.


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Old 09-21-2002, 12:44 PM   #21
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I don't disagree with the statement that 1.04 is pretty balanced, I just think that if you took ProMod blocking and 1.02 offense, you would have a what Raven should have done in the first place
Ah well more power to you. If that's your idea of what JO should be like, you should make a mod to match it, or recommend 1.02 offensive moves to Artifex or someone. JO is what JO is, however. Complaining about it, changes nothing.


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Old 09-21-2002, 04:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL

Complaining about it, changes nothing.
Um....did you not notice that the patches were based on the complaints in here? Complaints change a lot.


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Old 09-21-2002, 04:52 PM   #23
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Ahh but don't you hate both the patches? You've just proved me right. Henceforth let it be known that complaining changes nothing...

Changes nothing for the better, that is.


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Old 09-23-2002, 01:56 AM   #24
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i like 1.04 patch.


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Old 09-25-2002, 12:18 AM   #25
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I hate v1.04. It's crap. I stopped playing because of it in early july. I just reinstalled JK2 again today and applied v1.03. Won't be updating it past that this time.
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Old 09-25-2002, 12:40 AM   #26
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Most of the duel maps by default provide the ST Rifle and Bowcastor (and ammo for said weapons) in addition to your Bryar and the saber/stun baton of course. There are some that allow higher weapons. For example Imperial Labs: Raven has a Repeater and FC1, IIRC.

But true, few people host those levels except with "sabers only" so they never realize that.

Actually, it's quite easy to kill a saberist with an ST Rifle or Bowcastor if you know what you're doing. Then again, on those duel maps, ammo is somewhat scarce.... but mostly likely you'd be going for all of it, and just switch to a gun when you had enough juice and use absorb to prevent it getting pulled.... could go either way.

Ever since I got JK2 I've been less about "saber duels only" and more about the complete picture. I enjoy the MP experience of the game. I admit I preferred the sabers as they were in 1.02 because overall in the gameplay modes, they did decent damage but you could still kill a person with them quite easily if you knew what you were doing. Now the blocking is such that saber vs. saber just takes too long.. its far easier to just blow them up with a gun or explosive. Thus, as people are saying, it tends to seperate the game into "guns" and "sabers" only servers... intentionally or not.

I would still argue it's "Sabers & Force" (plus guns and explosives) that make the JK series unique, not just the Sabers. RuneQuake was mentioned. Well, there are other MP games that have melee weapons combat too... Rune/HOV anyone? (which incidentally has Rune powers, but they are very different, and far less versatile than JK/MotS or JK2's force powers).
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Old 09-25-2002, 08:22 AM   #27
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I still play in 1.02. I once considered going to 1.04 but I didn't go. 1.02 rocks I've got so many friends there so I'm not going anywhere in a while


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Old 09-25-2002, 10:53 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL
Ahh but don't you hate both the patches? You've just proved me right. Henceforth let it be known that complaining changes nothing...

Changes nothing for the better, that is.
I didn't start posting complaints until after 1.04 was released and I decided that these nerf crazied noobs needed some opposition.

While my complaints haven't gotten us a new patch they have happily shut down and interupted many of the nerf-a-thon threads that sprang up to get rid of blue lunge and kicks.

So hopefully if Raven does make another patch (which I doubt) they will know that their are some people out there that don't agree with these people that for some reason think everything that kills them is an exploit.


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Old 09-25-2002, 03:18 PM   #29
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Look, the bottom line is this. If you're playing 1.04, and you're killing gunners with your lightsaber, or even having great success with your lightsaber all the time, then you're on the wrong server. You're playing the wrong players. For all intensive purposes, for all the logic in the world, the lightsaber in 1.04 is a wiffle bat. Someone commented that killing gunners was like a fly buzzing in your ear while you waited to kill them. Well, I think it's time you migrated to a different server, or some place where the competition is less casual. I used to play on the jedibattlefields server, playing JK2++, and while the lightsaber was changed, the guns were not. They returned to their normal working order in that version. Let me tell you, if you're beating gunners with your 1.04 saber, you ain't playing 'gunners'. Those guns will ROCK anything. the lightsaber in 1.04 is a toy. The bryar pistol does more damage, fires fast, and if some constantly attacks you with a lightsaber, is probably more reliable. If the lightsaber couldn't block, the bryar would own.

I have played some of the best gunners around. How do I know they're the best? Because, when I have a lightsaber in JK2++ that could kill them in 1 to 2 hits, have force speed turned on, and give chase, they know when and where to place the shots, and they rarely, if ever, miss. They have played games like ut and quake, they know how to fire weapons. I don't run in straight lines either, I was quite competent at taking out decent gunners. When I actually managed to get close enough, I had to be able to take them out in 1 or 2 hits. that's about all the chances you're going to get to outmaneuver or think them. A majority of jk2 players, who got the game because of lightsabers, like myself, have terrible aim. They get kills only because the weapons in this game just happen to have a huge splash damage radius.

You may play any version you want, based on how much fun it is for you, but if you ever believe that you're owning with a lightsaber in 1.04, you're nuts. This game is completely skewed. There's two levels of play now. The "I like bashing people with glow sticks" version, which has so little risk involved it's like playing a game of checkers, only now you have to jump over all the normal pieces two times to get rid of it, or the "I'll use the guns and rock you style", which is still reminiscent of 1.02. All in all, it's a watered down quake/ut game. A sad sad thing.
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Old 09-25-2002, 04:53 PM   #30
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Fatal, 1.04 was a kick in the teeth for the "nerf-crazed noobs" as you call them. If you can't see that, it's your loss. I expected 1.04 to be worse than 1.03, but since I play it with an open mind, I can see clearly that it is an improvement.

Shaft:

Quote:
I have played some of the best gunners around.
Listen friend, I'm sorry, but every player and his uncle calls the players who beat him: "some of the best." And all players better than oneself seem godlike. It doesn't wash, really, you've probably never even heard of a really good gunner.

As for guns, the ratio is quite simple: I make roughly 1-2 kills out of every fifteen kills, with my sabre. This is regardless of opposition, or the quality of my opponents. I use the sabre when I'm cornered after a spawn, when I've run out of ammo for my preferred guns, or when my gun has been pulled.

Like any weapon there are WAYS OF USING IT to its fullest advantage. Yes, it is impossible to "own" using only your sabre on a guns server, but to an experienced player the lightsabre is a joy to use, and it will save your life and provide you with valuable kills.

Quote:
the lightsaber in 1.04 is a toy. The bryar pistol does more damage,
Ugh, what utter drivel. "The Bryar does more damage." Uh-huh, pull the other one, it has got bells on. The sabre, properly wielded, beats everything up to the bowcaster and disruptor. If you can't kill someone who's holding an ST or a bowcaster, then it's your lack of skill that's responsible, not the alleged weakness of the sabre.

Quote:
All in all, it's a watered down quake/ut game.
/me sighs.

You say you bought the game "for the sabres." Then that must be why you're complaining that the sabre isn't as powerful as the bigger guns. You want to use the weapon you like, and you want to win while using it.

It ain't going to happen. It was NEVER going to happen. There are low Force servers for people who can't handle Force, there are sabres only servers for people who can't handle guns.

I'm frankly tired of people complaining about the game, just because it wasn't exactly the game they wanted. Thinking like that caused 1.03.


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Old 09-25-2002, 06:01 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL
Fatal, 1.04 was a kick in the teeth for the "nerf-crazed noobs" as you call them. If you can't see that, it's your loss. I expected 1.04 to be worse than 1.03, but since I play it with an open mind, I can see clearly that it is an improvement.

The difference between 1.03 and 1.04 is that pull and back stab are now nerfed. That is your idea of kicking them in the teeth

Also that dude who claims to have played against the best gunners mentioned jk++, which would mean most likely played against -V- members which according to TWL a while back were the best gunning CTF team. Thus it looks like he has played the very best.

Any weapons other then the Golan, Heavy, and Rocket, are blockable so only a stupid gunner would use them on a saberist.


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Old 09-26-2002, 04:08 AM   #32
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Listen friend, I'm not making this up. I guarentee you that these gunners run circles around the common crop. These people are the ones who dominate the ladders, etc.

And no, they don't use hacks, get lucky... etc. Do I say this just to inform all the world that I have gone up against the toughest players? No. The point was to highlight the fact that in a game where players have equal skill at using weapons, the lightsaber falls pitifully short.

I don't care how many kills you have in 1.04 using a lightsaber, in the end, these 1-2 kill victories are not the result of direct, one on one conflicts with the most accomplished gunners. And like I'm telling you, the best gunners are not going to be touched 5-10 times by a 1.04 saber. Even in JK2++, where it took 1-2 hits to kill with a lightsaber, the mantra was "and stop using the @#!@! saber, play seriously".

If you believe that players like meta, krash, rage, dragon or other members of clans that were top competitors, are actually just average, then wow, I must really be out of it, because I never seen a level of play similar to it. I've been around many servers, but these guys cut the cake. Even still, the fact that they are good isn't the point. Just their ability to avoid common saber tactics, their ability to go beyond the 'oh no, i can't block and you can pull my gun' mentality and actually use their weapon dynamically, making it useful not just in some in situations but ALL situations, is the point. Whe nthis happens, a low damaging lightsaber just isn't up to the task.

Cerainly the lightsaber can handle anything up to the bowcaster, but that's the problem right there. No one in there right mind uses those weapons when you have the top tier weapons in hand. I played 1.03 plenty, and while my bryar pistol statement was perhaps uncalled for and exagerated, the fact of the matter is once the top tier weapons get in the exchange, the lightsaber is basically as useful as the lesser weapons up to the bowcaster. And of course you can beat the other weapons, if you can block their shots, there's no return damage, no retaliation if the saberist is competent. But when the big guns come out, the lightsaber no longer cancels things out. Now the saberist must rely on speed, sometimes good force pushing ability. Unless the saberist goes the easy rode (aka just pulling the gun away), the match now requires the players to be able to deal out significant damage to each other. Right now, the gun does this, the saber doesn't. So long as the gunner has weapon in hand, and is competent like the saberist is competent, the gunner is going to win all of the one on one engagements, lest the saberist somehow drained the gunners ammo. But should they actually actively engage in combat, the result is one sided. Why should I be content with a game where anyone who uses the saber has to play the game of patience with not just one gun wielding opponent, but virtually every gun wielding opponent?

Of course I want to win while using the lightsaber. I think it's ridiculous that I buy a game about jedi, get my hands on the jedi weapon, and then find out that all the standard weaponry of the galaxy is not just easier to use, but more practical and eventually more advanced in its uses. Use it in a ctf game as well as some of the gunners i and others have played, and it's amazing how quickly you can clear out certain situations. It's a treat to use a saber if I can close distance with an experienced gunner, and for all my efforts get the kill. It is not a very good game if I am on a gunning server, I manage to outmaneuver my opponent and land the hit, only to be killed very quickly and easily two seconds later. It is much harder to hit the experienced gunners with the lightsaber than it is to stand a mile away using force push, or pulling their gun, or standing far away and using your own gun.

I like to use the lightsaber exclusively. If I'm going to use a weapon that requires better aim and timing, and exposing myself to greater dangers than most, if not all the other weapons, save perhaps the bryar, then I would expect to be rewarded equally, if not greater than "the big guns".

The whittled down saber damage does nothing more than prolong lightsaber battles between competitors. It created a virtual rift between gunners and saberists, so much so that the top 'gunners' or competitive players are abandoing jk2 in search of the other games. To loosely paraphrase something Artifex mentioned, those players are finally realizing that there are games with better guns than JK2, and that you could just play runeQuake if you wanted force powers and guns, and that the lightsaber, which is the only real defining feature of this game besides the skins and map textures, is no longer a 'game-making tool'. That's why I say it is a watered down ut/quake.

Have fun getting your 1-2 kills for ever 15 kills. For 1.04, that's actually good, I commend you for your dilligence. However, that just proves the point. this game depends on a lightsaber that gives you a diverse playing field, one where you can dominate with the top tiers guns or with the lightsaber. Right now, the lightsaber is the equivalent to Counterstrike's knife, or Quake's energy thing, whatever it is, only it has blocking properties too. You use force powers and fast reflexes to avoid the shots, and you whittle your opponents to death. But you can't be aggressive, no serious player fears the lightsaber. they realize this game has lost any semblance of enjoyable and competitive playing styles. It's now either gun, or be conservative and wait. If we're all going to gun, might as well play ut or quake, or might as well have made a ut or quake mod called 'star wars guns and with a cool looking knife/shield'.
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Old 09-26-2002, 11:55 AM   #33
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The guns v saber issue is not all to blame on saber damage. Even if you up saber damage guns still kill you....why?

Well its a speed of attack issue. To get your strongest attack from a lightsaber you need to use heavy stance. When you swing in heavy stance you slow down to walking speed, and gunners can back up faster then you can move while swinging. Add to this the length and recovery of a heavy swing and you are now open to many shots from a gunner.

The Red DFA is never goning to land on a gunner. Gunner have based their entore gameplay on never staying still. In 1.02 you could attack with a DFA and move in the air to catch them if they bunny hopped, and you weren't stuck on the ground collecting your thoughts afterwards either.

Medium stance in 1.02 was much better at attacking while strafing, which when play against a guy with a big gun is very important.

Light stance could lunge in the air, which could by you some time before landing, saving you from landing on a missle. It could also be used to pick a bunny hopper out of the air.

Also Force pull was incredibly usefull because you could pull gunners down while rolling at them. They can't shoot you if they are on their backs.

All of these techniques are gone in an effore to make a patch that required "real skill." By real skill they meant no powerful moves far reaching reliable attacks. Everything is based on exact timeing and short range. Well the L33t Jedi's that thought this idea up never gave a damn about us players that actually play the whole game, they only thought of their little saber only crowd of wannaB's that think they are the best because they can win at one game type.

You add this to the weakened sabers that are played on ladders and you get this choice....

Pick up a gun or your team will lose.


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Old 09-26-2002, 02:45 PM   #34
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I find it funny how its been months after 1.04 and you people are still complaining aobut stuff. I say JUST LIVE WITH IT. I am the type of gamer where I don't give a rats ass if there is a patch. If something is changed I ADAPT, I don't sit there and complain about this and that. If you all were truly JK series fans, then you would not be here complaining about 1.04. Just play and have fun. You all want to be these awesome people, guess wat, there is always someone better then you no matter how good you get.

Also, if any of you ever want to play me.... I am on the sever called {LoD} Lords Of Dueling My name is {LoD}Locke505{CM} hope to see you all on our clan's server.

NOTE: its running Jedi Mod 3.5, i perfer reg JK2 then it but oh well, the majority wins i guess.....(i am talking about the other clan members)
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Old 09-26-2002, 03:20 PM   #35
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Adapting is not a good choice. I have been playing video games for years, far too long in fact. Simply sitting back and adapting is something I have had to do when the only games around were arcade and nintendo games. If I thought Street Fighter 2 had moves that were too powerful for some characters... too bad, I had to adapt till the next version.

But nowadays, in the age of patches and downloadable fixes, I figure I might as well complain, even if no patch will come. However, Promod and JK2++ did eventually come along, Promod now set to outlast JK2++. That makes me happy.

Fatalstrike and I are not complaining because we don't win, or can't win, or want to be awesome players. I am complaining because of how limited 1.04 really is. I know from experience that with more dangerous settings that more situations are possible, faster thinking is needed, or the results will not be in your favor.

I'm tired of buying games and finding out that I just bought a flashy copy of Doom. I already played that game. It was a good game for its time, but ultimately straightfoward. there were no 'gamestyles' that were predominant and equally dangerous. JK2 has delved into that region. It's play one way or the highway. that is why I complain. Why not? I already 'just have fun'. It's called Super Mario Brothers. It's called Rad Racer. I'm ready to move on, and with Promod I essentially have. But if someone asks me if I like 1.04, i'm going to say no, and then tell everyone all day long why.
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Old 09-26-2002, 08:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
I like to use the lightsaber exclusively
Shaft, this admission nullifies your entire argument, and (this applies to most similar arguments as well) I'll tell you why:

You want to be able to use the lightsabre exclusively in all free-for-all matches, and have a good chance of winning against players of comparable skill to yourself, who use guns. To accomplish the creation of this type of game, the lightsabre would have to be at least as powerful as any other gun. Acceptable? Okay. There are two ways of doing that, the first is to increase the power of the sabre, the second is to nerf the guns. But wait, because there are a RANGE of guns, that is many different types of projectiles, with different strengths and weaknesses, to equal all other guns, the sabre would have to be able to defend against them, and have at least as much attacking power AS them. This would make the lightsabre undoubtedly the most powerful weapon in the game, right?

Point one proven, if one wishes JO to be tailored for sabre-only use against guns, the sabre would have to be powered up, or the guns powered down to such an extent that the sabre would be easily the most powerful weapon in the game.

Therefore, you see JO as a game that should make the lightsabre the most powerful weapon. That's your opinion, and you have a right to it. But consider this: If the lightsabre was the most powerful weapon, nobody except newbies would use anything else because, (as you say of the bowcaster for example,) people would have to be out of their minds to use a weapon which is weaker than others, right?

Okay, point two established. If the sabre was more powerful than all the other weapons, all the guns servers would basically be sabres-only servers. Now I'm sure your gut reaction to this will be "Wrong! Guns would just take a back seat, that's all..." But that's not true. Because guns would be used as much as the sabre is used in guns FFA right now... not much, if at all... which is what you're complaining about now.

So stripped of all its disguises your idea is to change guns servers into sabres-only servers. That's the final point, and QED.

Who would win in a fight, a Jedi with only a lightsabre, or a Jedi who had a whole backpack full of different weapons AND a lightsabre? The answer is obvious, the Jedi with all the different weapons, simply because he has infinite options and the bloke with the sabre has only one.

The game is the WAY IT IS. Jedi Knight 1 was also this way, guns and a sabre beats just a sabre. It's time people stopped asking for the game to be changed, just because it doesn't match their vision of what it should be or should have been. Oh, and 1.02 was just as gun-friendly as 1.04 is btw.

I use my sabre to make a small proportion of my kills in Guns FFA. This is because I use it under the right conditions, just as one should only use the disruptor under the right conditions. There are conditions in which the golan is unusable, and there are conditions in which the sabre is ideal. That is the truth of the matter.

Quote:
It's play one way or the highway. that is why I complain. Why not? I already 'just have fun'.
My friend, you can play HOWEVER YOU WANT TO. But to beat the best, you must play a certain way, it's true. That's the same in EVERY game. If you want to win in CS, you must learn to pulse-fire, and learn to drag/throw multiple guns ahead of you as you go, and you must learn to snipe, and move silently, and rush... (oh btw, many players become extremely good at using the knife in CS, and it is undoubtedly less powerful than the sabre., Since you mentioned it.)

And if you want to win in UT, you must learn to shock-combo, and translocate, and...

Oh the list goes on. You can play however you want, but there are ALWAYS concrete techniques which allow one to win, and the most proficient at these techniqes will win. It's a fact of gaming life, and I'm sorry, but whinging and whining about it will never change it.

I'm really, honestly sorry if JO didn't live up to your expectations, because I'm lucky that it lived up to mine. I'm lucky I was realistic in my expectations, even a little pessimistic, perhaps. I'm sorry if you wanted JO to be everything to everybody, (I wish it was, I truly do) but it's just a game, it's just the way it is. It's not for people who specialize in sniping. It's not for people who can't handle force powers. It's not for people who can't aim, and it's not for people who only play driving games...

It's for JO players. Are you one?

Quote:
The difference between 1.03 and 1.04 is that pull and back stab are now nerfed. That is your idea of kicking them in the teeth
Yes that is my idea of kicking them in the teeth Fatalstrike, because all the little morons who wanted 1.03, liked the overpowered backstab, and pull/backstab. Taking it away from them was indeed "kicking them in the teeth" and if you were one who felt that effect, I have no qualms about lumping you in with the rest of the 1.03 lovers. Backstab made JO into a game of "pong" with better graphics. 1.04 has fixed that. Hooray!

Actually you seem to like just about every silly imbalanced technique in 1.03 Fatal... The hovering light lunge which could save anyone from a fatal fall... the backswing that was an instant kill even when one had full armour as well as health... Frankly your idea of a "good game" seems so utterly silly as to be laughable.

And AMEN Locke101, amen.


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Old 09-27-2002, 12:06 AM   #37
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I like 1.04... with ProMod.

ProMod is what 1.04 should have been. And I know, as I was one of many that continued to petition and wait for Lucas Arts and Raven to improve saber defense (patch after patch); but alas only to get Ver. 1.04 an under developed blocking setup based on random non-skill variables.

The concept and evolution of strategic saber/force combat is alive and kicking with ProMod.

With ProMod beta 2 the saber is as deadly as ever (... especially against gunners ) in the hands of a skilled player. And defense is rock solid as well especially if you take the time to learn and practice the defensive postures.

Lets hope the developers take note. This mod is sizing up to be worthy of official support and release.

ProMod plays more like Raven's Heretic2 (in my opinion the best melee game every) but with the trappings of the far more sophisticated JK2 combat system.

But then ProMod does seem more in step with the mature competitive player which is probably one reason it is not as widely played as other Mods; Mods that have lots of candy to keep the kids happy but little functional substance.

Try this Mod,

p.s. Bots have improved as well in ProMod, as they have machine like CSC aim when playing NF saber only. Good luck.

Last edited by MrCrusher; 09-27-2002 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 09-27-2002, 12:11 AM   #38
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So long as I can use an imperial repeater, and or imperial flechette exclusively in this game and be highly successful, I would wish the lightsaber to be able to do the same. I never want servers to be sabers only. I never play on sabers only servers. Those are the most biased, boring versions of play. There is nothing going on in sabers only gameplay. I thoroughly enjoy being massacred by guns. If this game matched my vision, there woudln't even be top tiered guns, every gun would be a high damage, dangerous weapon.

It didn't live up to my vision, and it did to yours. You are correct. Promod seems to match my vision more vividly in my opinion.

I'll just say it one more time. So long that the best players were able to use the imperial repeater, and flechette, and rocket launcher, by itself, repeatedly, and use it not just effectively, but highly effectively, in all game situations, aka never ever ever use the lightsaber, and still effectively destroy their opponents, then yes, I think the lightsaber should be the most powerful weapon in the game. Why? Because if you need to charge at a gunner, who is capable of using the rocket launcher or repeater exclusively as well, then the lightsaber needs to be able to match it, no, exceed it, in damage because of the limited range it has, the opporutunities to return damage and allow the player to evade.

Like I said before, I would never object to a stormtrooper rifle that killed fast, a bryar pistol that killed fast, or any projectile for that matter.

My whole argument is based around a lightsaber that allows for fast game play equivalent to the three guns. 1.04 doesn't deliver that, and you must use all weapons, like you said. But, then again, using all weapons and a lightsaber against a saberist will beat the saberist. That's a given. Using all the guns and the lightsaber against the top players, who are only using their repeater, etc., doesn't make a difference. They don't care, the only time they truly fear you is when you also use their guns. So no, using all the weapons is not a great developed stradegy, it's just a logical thing to do.

And to conclude with the a dorky reference... if I saw two jedi in the movies take on all their opponents skilfully and gracefully with their lightsaber, then I wish to do the same. If I must use a gun in order to accomplish a goal, it removes all feeling of star wars from the game for me. I don't ever recall luke skywalker or darth vader needing to switch to imperial flechettes or repeaters in order to succeed. Sure luke used his blaster pistol on bespin, but a fully trained jedi doesn't need one. I like that atmosphere.

This game already has that atmosphere for guns. If you have a flechette or repeater, technically even at close range, that gun is still incredibly useful, and the backsplash damage isn't awful at all. If the movies depicted jedi wielding rocket launchers, then 1.04 would be the most excellent portrayal. But that's not the case, the saber is just another tool in a bag of tricks, and as you pointed out to me, you're right, I don't feel like using any of the other tricks.

Last edited by Doctor Shaft; 09-27-2002 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 09-27-2002, 01:33 AM   #39
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Okay, so you're basically agreeing with everything I said in my post? This is a new experience for me. Allow me to savour it briefly.

Done.

Okay, progress has been made, you admit that your vision for the game is not the "right" vision, but merely your opinion of what the game could have been like, which would (in your opinion) have been preferable to the way it actually is now?

Good. And you like Pro-mod. Good. Okay. Solution.

Pro-mod awaits you. It's waiting for you now. It awaits you somewhere right now...


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Old 09-27-2002, 11:36 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL

Yes that is my idea of kicking them in the teeth Fatalstrike, because all the little morons who wanted 1.03, liked the overpowered backstab, and pull/backstab. Taking it away from them was indeed "kicking them in the teeth" and if you were one who felt that effect, I have no qualms about lumping you in with the rest of the 1.03 lovers. Backstab made JO into a game of "pong" with better graphics. 1.04 has fixed that. Hooray!
OK I jus wanted to make sure that you thought that nerfing something "was a kick in the teeth" of the pro-nerfing crowd.

I think you have the BS crowd and the Nerf crowd mixed up but, whatever.

1.03 was a mistake caused by those that support nerfing attacks as a form of balance. No one out there was secretly plotting to over power the BS by adding block and nerfing Heavy stance.

Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL
Actually you seem to like just about every silly imbalanced technique in 1.03 Fatal... The hovering light lunge which could save anyone from a fatal fall... the backswing that was an instant kill even when one had full armour as well as health... Frankly your idea of a "good game" seems so utterly silly as to be laughable.
And AMEN Locke101, amen.


I have said it before I wil say it again 1.03 was garbage. I didn't like it, and consider a rough draft of 1.04.

I have no problem with instant kill moves, you're a sissy if you do. There should always be attacks to keep you on your toes. I don't need them to be damn near impossible to land in order to avoid them like the little girls who hate 1.02.

I simply want the entire range of attacks offered to you in 1.02 with some added defense. I don't understand why they double nerf everything.

If you have a pain in your wrist, Raven's solution would be to cut your arm off.

I'm sorry that some of you get so bothered by the fact tha I dare to disagree with Raven, but the fact is the game is less now then when you bought it. You can call me a whiner all you want, I didn't expect sheep to think differently anyway.


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