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Old 08-27-2002, 07:22 AM   #1
D.L.
 
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Is JK2 dead/dying?

In the last week, there have been little to no new mods/skins/models/maps etc for JK2. The skins that are released are rehashes of that Tyrion model or whatever. Online gameplay is getting boring with people spamming moves, complaining if they die and all in all, ruining the game because they think winning is everything.

Single Player is dead, more or less, once you finish the game. There are only so many times you can play the levels over and over. There have been a few nice SP fan-levels, but nothing to write home about. There have been no noteworthy SP mods, due to the whole lack of code that Raven has provided to the fan base. A new saber or player model is about as good as it gets and there's only so many you can use, before it gets tired and old.

Do you think the game is dead? Do you think it's dying? If so what do you think can be done to save it? It's a great game but nowadays, a game is only as good as it's expansions. Look at Half Life. It going strong 4 years later for only one reason. Counter Strike. When will JK2 get it's Counter Strike?


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Old 08-27-2002, 07:26 AM   #2
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It has, it's called Promod.

come play it at

Praxeum Knights Saber Only FFA - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28070

Praxeum Knights CTF - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28080

http://www.lowgrav.org

If default 1.04 combat seems too dull for you, give promod a try. I've found the new saber combat system provides a much more skilled form of the game. Or rather a system that requires more skill anyway.
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Old 08-27-2002, 09:10 AM   #3
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I agree with D.L.

I've been playing through the in-game server.

And the last week, I have noticed that not many people are out there, compared to a of month ago....


Amazing, despite the Star Wars phenomenon, CS still rules?


We all comes to a point of no return, when we find that all our efforts has been useless...
we're just ripples in the sand...vanishing into sea... into time...
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Old 08-27-2002, 09:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by KnightHawk420
It has, it's called Promod.

come play it at

Praxeum Knights Saber Only FFA - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28070

Praxeum Knights CTF - Promod
IP: 206.169.69.25:28080

http://www.lowgrav.org

If default 1.04 combat seems too dull for you, give promod a try. I've found the new saber combat system provides a much more skilled form of the game. Or rather a system that requires more skill anyway.
I've downloaded it a while ago but I never got around to trying it. I'll give it a go tonight. I think JK2 could really proft from an Imperials Vs Rebels/Jedi Vs Sith(yes I know this is technically possible with the existing setup) mod


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Old 08-27-2002, 09:29 AM   #5
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What we need right now is a sequel, to keep the game alive

More SP and some more maps maybe???


Duel has old maps from JK1, thats cheat!


We all comes to a point of no return, when we find that all our efforts has been useless...
we're just ripples in the sand...vanishing into sea... into time...
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:10 AM   #6
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Did someone say Tyrion?

Anyway...I lost interest in the game when 1.03 came out,didnt even bother installing 1.04...



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Old 08-27-2002, 11:14 AM   #7
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Re: Is JK2 dead/dying?

Quote:
Originally posted by D.L.
In the last week, there have been little to no new mods/skins/models/maps etc for JK2. The skins that are released are rehashes of that Tyrion model or whatever. Online gameplay is getting boring with people spamming moves, complaining if they die and all in all, ruining the game because they think winning is everything.

Single Player is dead, more or less, once you finish the game. There are only so many times you can play the levels over and over. There have been a few nice SP fan-levels, but nothing to write home about. There have been no noteworthy SP mods, due to the whole lack of code that Raven has provided to the fan base. A new saber or player model is about as good as it gets and there's only so many you can use, before it gets tired and old.

Do you think the game is dead? Do you think it's dying? If so what do you think can be done to save it? It's a great game but nowadays, a game is only as good as it's expansions. Look at Half Life. It going strong 4 years later for only one reason. Counter Strike. When will JK2 get it's Counter Strike?
It's not Counter Strike. It's the pure,unerfed(that's what killed JKII for me,all that nerfing) game base and that there are so many different mods. Models do almost nothing in play factor,and how many mods have you seen with JKII that turn the game into a different FPS? With half-life they have half-life,opposing force, TFC 1.5, Day of Defeat, and a heapload of others that are all like different FPS.



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Old 08-27-2002, 11:16 AM   #8
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lets just think:

its back to school time, so many players/programmers don't have time to play/make lvls/models/skins



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Old 08-27-2002, 11:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by kstar__2
lets just think:

its back to school time, so many players/programmers don't have time to play/make lvls/models/skins
So every JK2 player is at school? Wow! I didn't think the average age was that low. Next time you post, have a point. Thanks.

It's a general thing and it's been ongoing since 1.03 was released.

For the record, the only patch I don't like is 1.04 but since I have JediMod I use that instead.


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Old 08-27-2002, 11:51 AM   #10
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Actually, it is a viable reason. Dest, programmer of JediMod, is going back to school and won't be able to update the mod that often for example.
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:56 AM   #11
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Both people have made good points.

After the patches completely changed the game, many players left. Add to that the beginning of schools (which by the way include college) and you have a community og much smaller size then before.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:06 PM   #12
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More strats = more fun.

When they started nurf'n strats and making us have less strats it became less fun.

The community is definetly getting smaller.

I have seen 2 really good clans leave, one undefeated. I have also seen many many good clans that had divisions just for JK2 not really play because of lack of interest.

Raven messed up. They should have add more counter moves instead of nurf'n. Had they done that then they would have not driven so many people away.

Again... add strats.. dont nurf them.
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:07 PM   #13
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What skin are you looking for exactly? Most everything has been done and most skins are like "Kyle v2.56543".
And a significant number of players are in school, highschool and collage so there is a valad point. The community will die if there is a thread like this every week. Geez
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Old 08-27-2002, 02:08 PM   #14
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Wait until summer starts again(long wait) and by then there will be a sequel or awesome update or expansion pack or something.
then it will be fun again!
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Old 08-27-2002, 04:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by JerAir
Wait until summer starts again(long wait) and by then there will be a sequel or awesome update or expansion pack or something.
then it will be fun again!
Well, I'll still be here until then. I've been playing this game since day one, mostly because I am married and have no money to buy a new game, and because the few games that I do want to buy don't come out until later this year (Sudden Strike 2 and 1503 AD in case you care).

I for one still find the multiplayer experience (mod-less) very fun. Granted, I've got a 56K modem connection, so I'm just happy if I can finish a battle without lag
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Old 08-27-2002, 04:50 PM   #16
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And TRIBES 2 IS COMING OUT WITH THE BESTEST PATCH EVAR TO FIX EVERYTHING THEY MESSED WITH!!!



Heh.

Anyway...um...yea. I just haven't been very into JediKnight2 lately, and with school starting that should mess up my gaming time (As most of my time will be in 4 catagories /School/Work/Sleep/Gaming/ unfurtunatly they are from greatest to least).

Hopefully I can get some free time but that is very doubtful since I'm planning/studying to become a certified network admin by the end of the year


Best sig EVAR!
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Old 08-27-2002, 05:42 PM   #17
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i dont think the games is dying its only been out a little times the same thing happened to counter strike it had no one at irst later like 1 or Half a year the game got alot of people playing it i think the smae thing will happen to this game to. what im trying to say is it needs time for more people to join and or bye the game and play it on the internet like this also it needs some poeple like s to join and get it popualler and so they can get


jedi master and dear freind of master yoda.also the freind of obi-wan
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Old 08-28-2002, 08:07 PM   #18
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All games normally have a lull where all the Modders too busy making their Mods to get involved with the game....


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Old 08-28-2002, 09:33 PM   #19
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Thumbs up Never fear....

Well, if the average "lifespan" of a video game is four months, then yes, JK2 is on its last legs.

However, if you consider JK2 to be an "above average" or "excellent" game (judging by the hype it generated and the almost universally great reviews and high sales, I'd say that's a "yes") then it should be here a lot longer.

You might think there aren't a lot of mods now, but just give it time, more and better mods will come out, I'm sure of it.

Remember when Episode I (the movie) came out? There were a TON of new mods released/started for JK1 at the time, even though by all counts the community was getting stale by that time. So there was a huge resurgence of interest in the game (perhaps some of it had to do with the somewhat low quality of the Episode I based games that were coming out at the time, and the fact that JK1 was about the best Star Wars multiplayer game at the time). JK2 was helped by the release of Episode II, note all the AOTC mods out/coming out? The same will happen for Episode 3 if people keep at it. Many people will even pick up the game, just because they got interested in Star Wars and want to play as a Jedi Knight after seeing the flicks.

As long as people play the game, it's not dead, and as long as there is a community, it's alive. ; )

I remember people were saying that JK2 was "dead" as soon as they beat SP, or as soon as the 1.03 patch came out. People always over-react. Just because a couple of clans break up, or a few mods get cancelled, doesn't mean a thing. Just keep playing/modding, if you enjoy it.
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Old 08-28-2002, 11:43 PM   #20
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Good point, Kurgan.


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Old 08-29-2002, 12:36 AM   #21
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One thing that I think would help all online multiplayer games is an official statement from the game producers that plainly says that a cheap tactic is not necessarily caused by an imbalance in game mechanics, and so altering the game mechanics will not necessarily improve the game, even though it might cripple the cheapness.


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Old 08-29-2002, 02:02 AM   #22
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Exclamation Wow, there's a lot of people lurking and posting about a game that's "dying!"

If the game were truly dying, I really can't believe the number of users still posting on a daily basis. If what the naysayers say were true this site would be dead.

So there's obviously still interest in this game. However, if something is not done soon, the game will probably fade away.

There are many things that have threatened JKII Outcast but the primary one is the negativity. If you don't believe me, read the majority of posts on the first page of this forum. I have never seen so much descension and unhappiness. This place used to be a community, it has become a bitching forum.

In my opinion, there is one main reason for the negativity and that is division. Remember the famous saying "Divide and Conquer?"

Many things have divided the JKII community but I think the following are primaily responsible:

1) The gamers who who refuse to install the latest upgrade because it nerfs the moves. They are no longer able to join the servers of those who did upgrade. Those who upgraded can no longer find those who haven't.

2) The gamers who use mods. Mods increase division for many reasons.

First of all, look at the number of different, varied, mods available for this game. Being human, we all have different tastes, and prefer the different mods, for one reason or another. When we find a mod we like we play that one exclusively. Why bother with the other mods that don't have what we want?

Secondly, there's the download time. Mods are nice but, unless you download the zipfile, they take a while to download on a mediocre connection. Myself, I am lucky enough to have a highspeed cable connection but many players are not as lucky. I cannot count the users who have connected to my server and then disconnected because they had to D/L the mod I was using.

Finally, there are those who know the secrets of a certain mod but refuse to share them. These idiots use their knowledge of the mod to their own advantage and refuse to share it. The user, who is new to this mod, gets discouraged, disheartened, and finally quits. The bad taste left, in the new players mouth, makes them not want to play a game with this mod in the future.

3) The number of 3rd party skins, models. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the aftermarket skins and maps. Whenever the game starts to bore me, I always am able to find a new skin, model, or map, to rejuvinate my interest. The downside is that these additions, like the mod files, take time to D/L. Those with a slower connection want to play and not Not D/L.

I'm certain that there are many other issues, dividing the JKII community, but I feel that the preceding list lists many of the primary reasons.

Division and negativity will do nothing but send this game to the bargain bin at your local software store. Instead of bitching at each other we need to band together and take action.

My first idea is to stop waiting for Raven to release an expansion pack and work on an all-inclusive zip file and/or CDROM. By all-inclusive, I mean one that would include all the latest mods, skins, maps, and models. This would give everyone the latest files without having to D/L.

After that, let's bitch at the game developers instead of eachother. The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

This game does have the longevity of Quake 2 or Halflife unless we let it die.

Just my 2 cents!


DAMNIT! I'm not a nOOb, in the scope of things I'm as old as Yoda so my reflexes are a bit slower!

I'm so old that I was typing basic commands into my Atari 800 while most of you young whippersnappers weren't even a sparkle in your Daddy's eyes!! LOL!
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Old 08-29-2002, 02:06 AM   #23
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Angry

http://66.250.145.38/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76725

nuff said!


DAMNIT! I'm not a nOOb, in the scope of things I'm as old as Yoda so my reflexes are a bit slower!

I'm so old that I was typing basic commands into my Atari 800 while most of you young whippersnappers weren't even a sparkle in your Daddy's eyes!! LOL!
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Old 08-29-2002, 02:11 AM   #24
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Yes there's still people lurking around here, but you should have seen how many were here before and right after the game came out. I think alot of the people got tired of waiting for a new patch after 1.03 and left the forum. I think what the game needs is a grreat total conversion. Unfortunetly that may not happen for a while so we may lose even more people by then. I hope people still stay here because there are still alot of people playing on public server, and they can come here to talk about the game.


So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
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Old 08-29-2002, 02:47 AM   #25
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There are less and less servers now :/


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Old 08-29-2002, 02:56 AM   #26
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It's dying because the patches have gone horrible...I loved playign 1.02...but at 1.03 I quit..it was horrible. The butts...they were so..*wimpers* powerful.They'd come up to me,turn around and shows thier butts to kill me. So,I was disheartend and quit. Then, i just couldnt play.The saber did so little damage in 1.04 that guns were the most powerful things there...thus I quited and left it to die...

Plus that and how Raven wont release the code so we cant play anything that's new(Ala Half life with DoD and TFC).



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Old 08-29-2002, 04:43 AM   #27
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note dying not dead
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Old 08-29-2002, 05:00 AM   #28
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Always ignore talk of a hobby or game "dying". It's always BS....

Anyway, I agree. I think JediMod, at the moment, is that unifing Mod as least until someone comes up with something better.


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Old 08-29-2002, 07:26 AM   #29
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I never said the game was dying. It was a general question. There is no doubting the number of fan made items has dropped considerably in the last few weeks. I know there are some TC's being made (AOTCTC and the Dark Forces one.) but apart from 2 well played mods, there's not been much expansion.

The Instaglib mod has been criminally over looked, and Hydroball. What ever happened to that? A total of one maps have been released.

I'll love to see a CS type mod, but I have neither the patience or the C++ knowledge to perfect it. I could do some basic editing but nothing on a grand scale.

I still play the game daily, and I'm working on maps to the best of my current ability.


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Old 08-29-2002, 07:41 AM   #30
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Ill never get bored coz i keep grippin' poeple and throwing them down a pit saying "WELCOME ABROAD DARKSIDE AIRLINES,I HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR FLIGHT!!!"

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Old 08-29-2002, 08:39 AM   #31
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Been a few new things today. The only things of merit would be the Ki Adi Mundi model and the LotR staff.


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Old 08-29-2002, 11:01 AM   #32
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The game is fading away and people ask why?

Why not compare what you paid for to what you have now.

Overall changes and force changes-
-Backing up was slowed down
-Heal and drain were made useless
-Push and Pull weaker

Saber changes-
-Heavy stance walks slowly
-medium stance is slower
-DFA is less useful
-Blocking is greatly increased but without action from players
-sabers damage is reduced

Weapons-
-require much more ammo for secondary shooting

What does this mean? Well you can see it as fixes or you can see it as it truely is, less. Every time raven toned somthing done they alienated players who liked using what they removed. They kept taking more and more out, and more and more players were alienated.

The game got slower, Footspeed went down and damage went down, so the game was left with a slower feel then the original. Many players liked the speed, thus many players left.

The game became more difficult to get into. Since defense was so high, and sabers so weak, new players do not have the same high energy experience that new players had with the original.

Weapon guys lost the ability to use the cooler aspects of there guns. They have to spend more time searching for ammo and less time shooting. many moved on to other shooters.
*****************

Now before you go and flame me and say that the game got better and I hate it because I love 1.02 I must ask you to stop and think. Did EVERYONE like the changes or do YOU like the changes?

Now your thinking, well EVERYONE will never like the same things, and you are right.

But by subtracting from the game they made the game LESS then what people purchased and thus they have gone. Had they added those players would still have their little vices and YOU would have a counter or something else to make you happy.

The idea of removing to improve will ALWAYS shrink a community. Since Raven has given no sign of improving the game many people simply assume that the moves they like will be nerfed next and why waste my time. So they leave.

Now you can think what you want, but you KNOW this is true. you know that the community splintered when 1.03 came out and then splintered again when 1.04 was released. Had raven fixed bugs instead of rewriting the rule book we would not have this problem.

Thanks for reading, if you disagree you haven't been watching the effects of patches as closely as I have.


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Old 08-29-2002, 11:06 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
Always ignore talk of a hobby or game "dying". It's always BS....

BS? Are you blind? have you not noticed that there are less servers every week?

This is FACT. So saying its not true is like closing your eyes on a train track and thinking "I can't see the train, so it must not be there"


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Old 08-29-2002, 11:33 AM   #34
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Basically, the game is dying for two reasons:

1) the 1.04 patch is plainly awful. It destroyed the competative balance of the saber in FFAs with guns, and made all-saber FFAs into red lunge/lightning/grip spam fests. Borrrrrinnnng. At least backstab spamfests were fun.

2) About the same time the new patch came out, Raven had Server One problems that STILL HAVE NOT BEEN RESOLVED!!!! For about two weeks you couldn't get a decent list of available servers on the in-game list, and TO THIS DAY there are still servers out there that don't show up on the in-game list. For instance McP's Gamegrid, which was an outstanding CTF server with big games and lots of good players is still online and can be seen and joined with The All-Seeing Eye, but doesn't show up on the in-game list so nobody plays it anymore.

There are many other servers in the same boat. Why doesn't somebody at Raven e-mail the admins of these servers and tell them what they have to do to get their servers to show up in the in-game list?

The result is a serious shortage of good servers. There aren't any FFA servers that can compare with the late, great Bantha Poodu and Always Online is the only large CTF server out there - and it uses funky settings (including 1.03 backstabs, heh, heh) and some lame maps (spaceport and degobah).

Jkii is dying because 1.04 and the server shortage have made it less fun to play than it was a few months ago.

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Old 08-29-2002, 02:59 PM   #35
Darth_Linux
 
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The Dark Forces MOD demo is due out in a little more than a month . . . don't give up on JK2 yet . . .


Producer - The Dark Forces MOD for Jedi Academy
http://darkforces.jediknight.net/
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Old 08-29-2002, 03:11 PM   #36
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I got to test ProMod Beta 2 last night and I must say it will bring some energy back to CTF by making weapon user much more vulneable to sabers. And by making saber fights much more fun.

Just wait until the end of next week and you can play it for yourself.

JKII will be reborn from the ashes of v1.04 Sabers shall be feared once more!....ok I have to go find something to do


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 08-29-2002, 03:14 PM   #37
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Lol and thanks to out bug findings, Atrifex has losts more work to do, on his promod site he said it could be ready as early as this friday night.
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Old 08-29-2002, 03:21 PM   #38
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Not too much work to do. Besides as it is now its MILES ahead of v1.04.

That man is a damn genius. Raven needs to fire the guy who made the patches and hire Artifex.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 08-29-2002, 03:41 PM   #39
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He said he had lots before he shut down his server, either way people are gonna drool when they see the new console system as well as the CSC defence/offence system. *thinks about it*
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Old 08-29-2002, 05:31 PM   #40
razorace
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Quote:
Originally posted by FatalStrike


BS? Are you blind? have you not noticed that there are less servers every week?
So? As long as there's a hardcore fanbase the game won't "die" until JK3 comes out.
Quote:
Had raven fixed bugs instead of rewriting the rule book we would not have this problem.
Why are you complaining about Raven's changes, ProMod changes more than Raven ever did and you're a big fan of ProMod? If you don't like the 1.04 patch changes, ether go play ProMod (or one of the other zillion Mods out there) or just play 1.02. Raven can't make you play 1.04....


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
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