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Old 10-06-2002, 10:24 AM   #1
Enjoi9187
 
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New animations POSSIBLE for jk2

Ok, on a thread by insane sith he was showing everyone this spider:

http://members.cox.net/quicksilverplaya/ketospiders.pk3

It was made by keto and if you look at it, it DEFINITLY looks like new animations, not just weighting tricks. So that means it IS possible right? for future models? This thread is just to let all modelers know that it is possible for future model reference (maybe like tabbards, or lekku)


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Old 10-06-2002, 10:45 AM   #2
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it's been known for a while that new animations are possible... but with mp, there are some problems.

edit: whoa, i just tried them and they are pretty cool... how the hell did he do that? and where is this thread?


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Old 10-06-2002, 11:21 AM   #3
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i wondered the same thing myself when i tried the spider, it also appears to use a different skeleton which isn't supposed to be possible either right? wtf.
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Old 10-06-2002, 11:23 AM   #4
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Mmm new skeleton = Optimus Prime model
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Old 10-06-2002, 11:47 AM   #5
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its not new animations, he just used the leg bones on the legs and had the legs start in different spots so they dont look like theyre all moving at once.

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Old 10-06-2002, 11:51 AM   #6
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bummer.
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Old 10-06-2002, 01:13 PM   #7
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well still we might be able to apply this trick to other models right i mean its a freakin spider how about we try makin somethin using this technique and wham have ultimate possibilities for model making until raven gives us what we need.


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Old 10-06-2002, 01:18 PM   #8
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yeah, but then when raven DOES release the code, all the other models will seem.... artificial.... oh well


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Old 10-06-2002, 01:21 PM   #9
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oh well. what i need is someone to help me i plan on just making my own gohan model instead of converting like i was told was possible. ok if anyone would like to help i would appreciate it. and i will figure out how to do this manipulation of the skeleton thing ok.


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Old 10-06-2002, 02:59 PM   #10
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Yeah Madjai is right. He's just odly weighted the legs and given them odd starting points. Good Idea though. I applaud his effort.


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Old 10-06-2002, 03:06 PM   #11
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you think its possible to change the running animation in the game. common, i don't think its a good idea running with your arms in a up and down motion with a saber on. you'll poke your eyes out!!! instead i suggest having one arm in the front and the other arm behind the back with the saber, saber pointing downwards. back slightly forward. you know like samurais in kung fu flix and japaneses anime. like in that game bushido blade. it just would make sense that way.



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Old 10-06-2002, 03:11 PM   #12
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exactly i take sword fighting lessons and the handling is wrong on so many levels but lburna is right they need to hold it like the samurais. the best example would be the side hold and charge like you have your sword/saber and hold it with both hands but extend it out to the right and when you reach the enemy you make an upward slash.


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Old 10-06-2002, 03:25 PM   #13
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i just think it would be a good idea since george did lucas based jedis with samurais. same moral code only thing is instead of a sword its a lightsaber. tell me if i'm wrong cuz i think i heard this from a george lucas interview a while ago.



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Old 10-06-2002, 03:27 PM   #14
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its true becuase all there stuff is based off of samurais styles and principles.like i said before im a sword fighter and ive taken samurai lessons.


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Old 10-06-2002, 03:31 PM   #15
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for the word jedi, george lucas was was inspired by the japanese jidai geki, which refers to a drama set in medieval japan during the time of the samurai.

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Old 10-06-2002, 03:46 PM   #16
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actually, then that would mean that obi wan held it incorrectly all the time, because at the duel of the fates, when he is running to catch up with qui gon and and gets stuck behind the red laser, he runs just like in the game. And in the battle scene on ep 2, many jedi you can see run like that when they are charging. So basically, they wouldn't hold the saber like samaruis, because they werent trained like thtat exactly, they have the same principles which are to protect truth and justice throughout the galaxy, but the fighting style is much differnt than samaris(sp?). Also, when qui gon and obi run from the droidikas they hold it "incorrectly" also, so my point is, if you can flip around and swing a saber around your body without cutting ur head off, then im sure they can RUN like that without poking themselves in the eye


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Old 10-06-2002, 03:53 PM   #17
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its funny, after i played JK2 and watched ep1 again i noticed that when quigon and obiwan ran from the droidekas they used force speed, never noticed it before.

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Old 10-06-2002, 04:12 PM   #18
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hehe, that was the first thing i notcied in the movies, thought it was a glitch, then if you look down teh strip while they are running, they leave a trail . but that brings up the question, Why didnt obi-wan use force speed to catch up with qui gon while fighting maul 0_o?


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Old 10-06-2002, 04:18 PM   #19
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Maybe he was too focused on the battle. If he had sped up but had not seen the laser traps forming, he could have been chopped up or something. I dunno

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Old 10-06-2002, 04:18 PM   #20
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yeah thats true why didnt he?


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Old 10-06-2002, 06:02 PM   #21
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sounds good....


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Old 10-06-2002, 06:10 PM   #22
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maybe it was because going that fast makes you lose your composure, for example they could do it to excape because there was nothing in their path to run into, but when qui gon was fighting, he was watching the battle as he ran, not try8in gto escape, another thought is that maybe he was just too tired, i mean it took a lot of force and strength to pull up onto the ledge after being kicked down a level, jumping up, then jumping up to the highest level, perhaps he just didnt have enough stamina to run, because of that huge fight. With the droideka's they didnt even break a sweat, so it was easy to force speed outta there.


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Old 10-06-2002, 08:47 PM   #23
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or maybe when maul knocked him down a level he also got some medichlorians knocked out of him!
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jk


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Old 10-06-2002, 11:48 PM   #24
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Those spiders are funny.
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Old 10-07-2002, 07:21 AM   #25
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I always thought of the Jedi as a mixture of samurai, ninja and the musketeers. For example, the musketeers ran around France, helping defuse problems in the countryside and to protect the king and queen, the Jedi solve problems, keep the peace and defend the Republic... but that's just my interpretation of it. However, the samurai weren't so noble. The samurai were usually into raping and pillaging, but they kept fighting as the highest honorable mention, living and dying by the sword. The ninja always incorporated stealth, as the jedi do, however the ninja were engaging in stealth simply because it was easier to accomplish their missions, the jedi seem to do it because it's quicker than disrupting the local activity and harms less people.
But what do I know.. I'm just babbling on like this because I haven't slept in 2 days...


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Old 10-07-2002, 08:14 AM   #26
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the samurai coruption happend when a japanese emporer became corrupt and as did the samurai and thats when the ninja started (ninja are rogue samurai who after the mass corruption fought for justice)


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Old 10-07-2002, 08:46 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enjoi9187
actually, then that would mean that obi wan held it incorrectly all the time, because at the duel of the fates, when he is running to catch up with qui gon and and gets stuck behind the red laser, he runs just like in the game.
Obi-Wan was portrayed as a n00b in Episode 1... look at how many times he twirlies his saber for no good reason. He isn't a very good example of correct jedi form. But what you said about episode 2 is acceptable I suppose... except they were moving quite a bit differently than the raven skeleton runs. Raven's skeleton runs like jogging... it looks bad to me, too basic.
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Old 10-08-2002, 06:10 AM   #28
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Well I don't know about you guy's but my mod as er.......new ani's. Sort of. I looked at the animations then stoped them at certian frames. I get good results. I even made a half-ass Ninja animation were he hold it behind his back. It was AWSOME. May even fix it so that's it is in the mod. Hheheh


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Old 10-08-2002, 06:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scotchy


Obi-Wan was portrayed as a n00b in Episode 1... look at how many times he twirlies his saber for no good reason.
Well, if you look at qui gon in the first battle scene, obi says, "Master, droidekas." and both he and qui gon do this stupid little spin around thing to fight them. What im saying is that they never learned a way to "run" like samari's did, so they run pretty much however they would like as long as they dont hurt themselves.


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Old 10-08-2002, 06:41 AM   #30
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darth, in ur mod, can u make it like a cvar or something, cause i like running the other way too and im sure some other people dont mind it either.


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Old 10-08-2002, 06:45 PM   #31
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darth kitty is your mod out yet??? if not do you have a site for it. just wanna check it out. i'm looking for something new. what else did you change?? you think if its possible to make the butterfly kick as an attack instead of a roll. like an emote or something. it would make sense that way.



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Old 10-08-2002, 07:52 PM   #32
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Way ahead of you dude! The roll as well as the back roll and forward roll are changed to awsome acro stuff. The Left and Right rolls are now yes....butterfly's.

Way ahead of you. LOL

Alot of stuff is changed......alot. I will post pics soon and a tralier.

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I will post an update right now at my thread.

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Old 10-09-2002, 12:46 AM   #33
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the jedi ARE samurai...the samurai of fuedal japan were exactly like what the jedi are, a band of 'police' keeping peace and order throughout the empire (thats the japanese empire), just the same as the jedi did whithin the republic...and by the way, the jedi stance they use when duelling (lightsabers) is the same as a samurai sword (two handed, blade pointed outwards at about 45 degree angle) just watch crouching tiger, im sure lucas got inspiration (at least for the prequels) from hong kong theatre type swordfights, hell hes a fan of kirisawa's films, and they're right up that alley

back on topic...
There will always be little tricks like this to 'fake' animation, but it will not be fool proof...and even if we do get our hands on the animation source (its apparently about 400 megs!) who will know how to use it? i dont know of how many of you have tried to hand animate even a simple walk cycle- NOT EASY!! they used mo-cap stuff in the jk2 animations because of the many complex animations used, so i doubt we'll ever get something as good as that

and PS. the ninja were not breakaway samurai, they were a different kettle of fish altogether. ninjas were an elite band of assasins employed by the leaders of each house (daimyos) to assasinate their enimies etc...you're probably thinking of the ronin


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Old 10-09-2002, 06:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matariel
the jedi ARE samurai...the samurai of fuedal japan were exactly like what the jedi are, a band of 'police' keeping peace and order throughout the empire (thats the japanese empire), just the same as the jedi did whithin the republic...and by the way, the jedi stance they use when duelling (lightsabers) is the same as a samurai sword (two handed, blade pointed outwards at about 45 degree angle) just watch crouching tiger, im sure lucas got inspiration (at least for the prequels) from hong kong theatre type swordfights, hell hes a fan of kirisawa's films, and they're right up that alley
Actually, Lucas had no say in the game except to make sure stuff doesnt go outside star wars boundaries, he is a part of lucasfilms which has nothing to do with lucasarts.

Second of all, that would mean policemen, seals, and the army are all "jedi" because from what i know, they protect peace throught the galaxy too (america) so basically jedi are jedi, yeah maybe ideas were taken from other stuff but im sure the lucasarts team didnt study samurai's and motion capture according to how a samarui would hold a sword. That is like saying that in diehard or something they TAUGHT bruce how to hold a gun properly to stay within "cop" status


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Old 10-09-2002, 07:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matariel
back on topic...
There will always be little tricks like this to 'fake' animation, but it will not be fool proof...and even if we do get our hands on the animation source (its apparently about 400 megs!) who will know how to use it? i dont know of how many of you have tried to hand animate even a simple walk cycle- NOT EASY!!
Have you seen some of the animations from the polycount board that ARENT motion captured? they are very good and im sure that most people who model this stuff would be able to get some help from the polycount board, considering that they are pretty high up in rank over there.


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Old 10-14-2002, 06:12 AM   #36
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huh? what have you been drinking boy! youve completely misunderstood my point...this has nothing to do with lucasarts or raven, Lucas himself decided on how the jedi should fight, based upon kirisawa films he saw...raven simply used that style in the mo-cap

and what are you talking about?? the american military are far from jedi...jedi stand for peace and justice, and try to resolve disputes through peaceful negociation. Besides my use of the word 'police' was just to illustrate their function in society...the republic (okay, star wars universe now) had armies and such, but the jedi were different, a kind of police force

get it now?

and PS..
no amatuer modeller could possibly have access to motion capture equipment to make custom animations, its simply too expensive(about $10000 for a modest setup)...maybey if your university has some you can use, but either way its very hard to get access to stuff like that...i dont care how good the animations look on polycount, they're all hand made, which is cooler cos the animator can show off


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Last edited by Matariel; 10-14-2002 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 10-14-2002, 08:44 AM   #37
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You guy's are er.....wrong. They didn't use motion capture. They hired House of Moves for SOFII as you can tell by there animations in the game. JKII animations are pretty sh*ty. I mean, when you swing up with the sab (SO TO BE KATANA! WORLD PERMIERE NOVEMBER 11! MG:TEA MOD! ..................heheh............sorry.......... ..)er, it cut's the arms. Also you never heard of them doing that for JKII. I mean, EVERY DEVELOPER promots that they did if they did. I didn't see that on JKII advertisments. Only SOFII and SOF.....


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Old 10-14-2002, 09:18 AM   #38
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my whole take on jedi's usin force powers durring a fight

ok... well we have seen in 5 movies why jk2 is a bit un realistic... hasnt it occured to you people that every time foce is used in the movies it is thru either closed eyes or half lidded eyes... or when vader made peices of machinery smack that wuss luke upside the noggin... or even when maul used force push.. he had to stop moving and concentrate.. the deal is this... if palpatine could have ran around throwing lightning he would have never needed the chosen one.. or if vader could death grip while swinging a saber omg... you see.. the force flows through you and you must concentrate to draw from that power its not so simple as to point your hands and stuff flys or lightning shoots off... they have made it very dramatic in the films that it takes some focus to do this stuff that was why vader stopped swinging his saber at luke.. he wanted to soften him up with metal parts so he had to concentrate.. and if you thought that the emperor had bad ash skills... think about the power used to rip machinery from plasteel walls.. vader was wayyyy more powerful.. thing was and the tone lucas is setting suggests that even mighty anakin skywalker has been nothing but a slave his whole life.. to watto.. to the jedi order.... and to the emperor.. thats my whole take on this situation... this is why i dont mess with force in games where dueling is concerned.. because yes while force push is possible in a duel it requires more concentration that what is suggested in this game.. however to keep up with the action i guess raven decided that all dark and light jedi are uber after the fall of the empire... i mean look at what jerec did in jk1.. he tossed explosive balls of force at people... in a nut shell i guess im sayin that a realistic (as realistic as fictional characters can be) jedi or sith would have to concentrate to pull off most stuff in game... the only powers that should be used in a duel is leap.. push and pull... when the saber is ignited.... when the saber is not ignited because yes there is some force usage in saber handling otherwise some jedi fanatic wannabe coulda picked up a saber and been just as bad as any jedi... but when the saber is in i think the force powers should be used with a slight delay... as per movies...


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Old 10-14-2002, 09:27 AM   #39
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oh furthermore....

while yes the starwars saga is based loosley on a japanese story... the jedi are NOT samurai... the jedi did not go choppin off foriegners heads when they landed on coruscant.. the do not commit seppuku (killing themselves in shame) they do not own slaves... samurai were hardly just and kind.. if any of you had done any reading or studying of the subject you would know that samurai were as cold blooded as any nazi and thier social graces left alot to be desired.. the only thing fuedal japan has to offer the minds of the masses is a fiction look at the japanese cops.. ie samurai they were a cross between knights and nobles and thier life span wasnt very great... Jedi are much more peace minded than they


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Old 10-15-2002, 03:09 AM   #40
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the jedi are BASED on samurai, dont take me too literally...but they do chop people's heads off (<cough> jango)

Take a look at a model in the model viewer, and run thru all the animations, you'll see that the animations are too good to be simply keyframed. Also, take a look at the secondary animation (thats all the stuff that the 'character' is doing, but not intentionally) like the foot movements during a lightsaber swing, or the way the arms swing about during a roll or acrobatic move, that kind of stuff is extremely hard to keyframe in so it looks realistic. (and if the animations dont match up with the mesh properly, like as you say with the backstab, that is a result of the mo-cap process and applying the same animations to every model in the game)

Solution? motion capture
its simple why mo-cap for soldier of fortune, where they have very basic moves (erm...running and shooting??) and not JK2, where its much more complicated!

And by the way, the movies frequently show fully trained jedi pulling off some pretty cool moves with just a wave of the hand, so i dont know what you're on about with the whole 'realism' thing...anikin and luke must concentrate because they're still learning...yoda had to concentrate because he was lifting an X-wing for christs sake! Also, youve been reading too many star wars books, i only treat the stuff i see in the movies as 'true', all the novels are rubbishy additions to a story that should stay finished as it is. You say that people who are not jedi, or dont have the force cant weild a lightsaber, well what about Han in empire strikes back? They never said anything like that in the movies so your statements about who can use a saber just dont hold true


Gendou Ikari: Science is what makes man powerful
Kouzou Fuyutsuki: That kind of self-righteous arrogance is what caused the tragedy of fifteen years ago, the second impact. And here, before us, is the end result. This is a far great punishment than mankind deserved. This is the real Dead Sea.

(I finished this quote just for you, Jolly Elf)

Last edited by Matariel; 10-15-2002 at 03:23 AM.
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