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Old 11-09-2002, 12:28 AM   #1
Naphtali
 
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Does Promod make the game funner or more tedious

A question will this make it more skillfull and funner, or will it make more tedious, and the fun pushed out by over complication of the system. I would like to know, your opinions first?


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Old 11-09-2002, 01:54 AM   #2
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No no no no no no no no no noooooo. ProMod is not about making it more fun (even though it sort of does), but it doesn't make it tedious. What's tedious is JO's regular system. ProMod makes the game more about bringing balance and skill to saber fighting, and with beta 3 it's more about making the guns more even aswell. The old system was based more on the roll of a dice, not skill. Sure ya had to aim, but it was too random. ProMod is the best thing to happen to JO. It's really sad to when it requires a mod to make the game fun... ProMod even makes bot-fighting fun again... I should know, I spent a week playing with just bots in ProMod
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Old 11-09-2002, 08:21 AM   #3
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Tedious= hiting someone from behind and being blocked, only option to win is use guns, only one stance usefull.

fun=kills based on skill, no random numbers, more options, new dynamics.

can you guess which is which?
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Old 11-09-2002, 10:44 AM   #4
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without promod only one stance is useful (red) and 90% of the people out there now just run at you and jump up to do the yellow finisher... you move away and try to hack at them... weather you do hit them is luck. if they get lucky and land the finisher they win, if you get lucky and your hits to their heads as they are recovering from the move is actually a hit, you win.

if forces are involved people just throw at each other and pull untill one dies... oh the fun.

if guns are involved you just get riddled to death and end up playing quake with SW guns and some TK powers for defence. some people like this as they really like guns and the fact that they can mow down anyone that tries to use a saber is just fun for them, especially since they can have even MORE force powers by knocking the saber. People that like this will stay far away from promod since people with only a saber will become a deadly oponent. And in saber duels all three stances get back their utility. Finished are the days that you stick to red stance and try to tie your back/forward moves so that the arc'ing saber will hit the enemy and MAYBE score a hit. Yellow and blue are actually useful.

So if having to be more skillfull and switch between stances and actualy TRY to beat your opponent rather than repeat the same things over and over again is more tedious than fun for you, promod is not for you then.
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Old 11-09-2002, 11:31 AM   #5
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According to the "experts" the only time you can get hit with a saber swing in Vanilla 1.04 is, when facing more than 90 degrees away from an opponent, when in the middle of an attack, when an opponent swings while very close taking advantage of the hit you from behind while in front of you bug, or the random number generator dictates it's time for your defenses to drop.

A simple but not complete description of what Promod does is it awards damage points based on where your csc (combat crosshair) is at the point of contact on a clean hit. If it is pointing directly at the opponent, you score more damage points than if it is not pointing directly at them.

You can read a detailed description on Promod by clicking here .

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Old 11-09-2002, 04:35 PM   #6
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Promod isn't any more tedious to learn than vanilla 1.04. It makes for a deeper game though, meaning there's many more useful and deadly avenues of play to discover and master, no matter how good you are at the mod. Even demigod players like Lazarous can no doubt be surprised by some weird combination of attacks or counters that wasn't previously thought of.

Still, to novices promod doesn't seem to change anything. Casual players can't tell the difference between it and vanilla v1.04, at least at first. They'll see the game's crosshair looks a little different and notice a couple of weird bars on either side of the screen, but won't understand what they do.

So novices fight like they always do. They'll kick butt and not see what the big deal is about. But eventually they'll run into players like Lazarous, who will show them the difference by killing them unbelievably quickly and easily. Then comes the decision: is the novice willing to learn how do be a master, or does he go back to the vanilla game?

Hopefully in later versions of promod, there'll be so many cool new features (jetpacks, new force powers, new saber styles, better skins and maps, etc.) that casual players will feel compelled to "re-learn" their ideas of combat, and they'll stick with Promod.

But right now, it depends on the individual. Some people feel it's not worth the effort to adapt their combat training and would rather continue being an "experienced" vanilla player. Other more curious players who are looking for more ways to play will see promod as the second coming, and probably never go back to the vanilla game.

The biggest hurdle for promod right now is that no one can find a server with any people on it. So you either fight bots or go back to the vanilla game. It's tragic because promod is actually balanced better in almost every way, but what's the point if there's no one to play it with?

With any luck, people will start playing it online alot once ArtifeX brings out the new version and all the amazing features. For now people like me can only stand around and wait.

Last edited by Moradivh; 11-09-2002 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 11-09-2002, 07:44 PM   #7
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Well said. But what the hell do skins and maps gotta do with a mod such as promod?
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Old 11-09-2002, 08:15 PM   #8
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to generate a wider appeal thus more players.
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Old 11-09-2002, 08:17 PM   #9
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... And people can't just download them?
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Old 11-09-2002, 09:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolf Devil
Well said. But what the hell do skins and maps gotta do with a mod such as promod?
The idea is to gather together an official ProMod media pack of maps, player models, and player skins that are geared towards balanced, competitive play. It's my hope that it will become the defacto "A-list" for jk2 user-created content.

It's really difficult for someone to find quality maps/models/skins by poring through the various file libraries. The rating systems are vague and rarely have input from more than a few people. The only real way to judge the user-created content is to look at what has been loaded on the servers you play on. I'm looking to eliminate that problem.

Users will expect ProMod servers to have the "ProMod media pack" running. They won't have to worry about whether the model they like is supported or not. It'll just be there along with all the other media pack content. It'll be 100% optional for server admins, of course, but I don't forsee any of them refusing.


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Old 11-09-2002, 09:30 PM   #11
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Re: Does Promod make the game funner or more tedious

Quote:
Originally posted by Naphtali
A question will this make it more skillfull and funner, or will it make more tedious, and the fun pushed out by over complication of the system. I would like to know, your opinions first?
My best advice would be: give it a shot, and decide for yourself. There's people who enjoy it more, there's people who enjoy it less--find out which one you are.

I've made ProMod to be a deep game; deeper than the original. Better one-on-one saber duels can be found nowhere. If you are more skilled, more cunning than your opponent, then you will win. Nothing dictates outcomes in ProMod other than your abilities, and those of your opponent. If you're the kind of person who enjoys fathoming out the complexity of such a system, then ProMod is going to be a welcome gift to you. If instead you like simplicity and casualness in your gaming, then you may still enjoy it, but not on the level many do.


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Old 11-09-2002, 09:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX


The idea is to gather together an official ProMod media pack of maps, player models, and player skins that are geared towards balanced, competitive play. It's my hope that it will become the defacto "A-list" for jk2 user-created content.

It's really difficult for someone to find quality maps/models/skins by poring through the various file libraries. The rating systems are vague and rarely have input from more than a few people. The only real way to judge the user-created content is to look at what has been loaded on the servers you play on. I'm looking to eliminate that problem.

Users will expect ProMod servers to have the "ProMod media pack" running. They won't have to worry about whether the model they like is supported or not. It'll just be there along with all the other media pack content. It'll be 100% optional for server admins, of course, but I don't forsee any of them refusing.
Sooo.. what? You intend to put every skin and map that's good into the mod? Nobody will download it then since it'll be well over a hundred megs!!
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Old 11-09-2002, 10:51 PM   #13
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It would be a seperate pack, besides, it would kind of ruin what's cool about promod besides the gameplay, after all it's changed it's still under 1 mb.
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Old 11-09-2002, 10:54 PM   #14
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You're jerkin me, right? Only one meg?!
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Old 11-09-2002, 11:41 PM   #15
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This is the current build of beta 3, the beta 2 is even smaller...
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Old 11-10-2002, 10:31 AM   #16
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Beta 1 was approx 600 kb, and Beta 2 was about the same size as well
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Old 11-10-2002, 01:34 PM   #17
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So this "A-List" will have the most balanced and best maps released for the game? Well lessee, duel maps are pretty much excluded due to the fact that the very nature of 1v1 gameplay means that the actual location of play is irrelevant. There aren't any good CTF maps yet, which only leaves FFA, which as far as i'm aware isn't too hot in terms of maps either.

The mapping community for anything other than 1vs1 gameplay has yet to reach high enough standard for anything to be included on such an "A-List".
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Old 11-11-2002, 09:11 AM   #18
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I like promod alot, but there is only 1 european server where almost no1 is playing, so i have 2 stick with 1.04 :/=


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Old 11-12-2002, 09:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by WarteX
I like promod alot, but there is only 1 european server where almost no1 is playing, so i have 2 stick with 1.04 :/=
This should change once 3.0 is released.


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Old 11-12-2002, 07:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
So this "A-List" will have the most balanced and best maps released for the game? Well lessee, duel maps are pretty much excluded due to the fact that the very nature of 1v1 gameplay means that the actual location of play is irrelevant. There aren't any good CTF maps yet, which only leaves FFA, which as far as i'm aware isn't too hot in terms of maps either.

The mapping community for anything other than 1vs1 gameplay has yet to reach high enough standard for anything to be included on such an "A-List".
Well, like I always say: "Ya gots ta work with what ya gots ta work with!"

Actually Duel maps are very wellcomed. Location = atmosphere. A little variety is a good thing, don't you think? Plus some of them do in fact add an extra dimention to dueling.

I do expect this kind of critique from someone like DeTRiTiC-iQ, or anyone big over at Massassi Temple. Those guys CAN be a little snobbish at times, but NOBODY knows these games and mapping like THEY do!

Hey DeTRiTiC! It seems to me I've got a couple of your maps around here somewhere that got high marks. But I don't think they included BOT support! Why don't you finish them up, so we can seriously look at including them in the mappack for others to enjoy???

One of the cool things about the Modding community is that it showcases the TALENT that is out there -and there is alot of it! Let's put it to good use!


Syfo ~ Dyas

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ProMod homepage: www.oculis.org/promod
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Old 11-13-2002, 09:18 AM   #21
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promod would be the state of jk2 if lucas arts had given the saberists and newer players everything they asked for instead of just some of the things (that were enough to cause damage I might add)
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