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Old 12-11-2002, 12:05 PM   #81
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dont forget that sound pack i suggested, its too cool to miss out.


umm, yeah. so... stuff.
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Old 12-11-2002, 01:52 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by happydan
dont forget that sound pack i suggested, its too cool to miss out.
PM me a link to its download, though I imagine its in this thread somewhere. me = lazy today.


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Old 12-11-2002, 04:52 PM   #83
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can't wait for the media pack...

I wish I had enough balls to suggest the model I've been working on, or wish a skilled skinner would give it a better face (I doubt there is enough interest for the character though).

You can check the showcase forum here if you're interested about this low-budget a-la-bollywood production (shameless plug i know )

It would be GREAT to be able to play on some non standard maps for a change. The thing that worries me though...

There are very little promod players at a given time to begin with. Also coupling this with a multi megabit download for the mediapack could shy away even further players.

I could suggest splitting the media pack in two as a small way to alleviate the load: one pack would contain only the maps, while the other pack the player models, and whatnot. This way the first part of the media pack would be indispensable to avoid being booted off mapcycles, but the second part would be optional for your visual pleasure
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Old 12-11-2002, 06:05 PM   #84
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Here's a better idea... Split it into several catergorized pieces, such as:

ProMod Media Pack: Maps

ProMod Media Pack: Models

ProMod Media Pack: Reskins

ProMod Media Pack: Saber Sounds (Optional. I do recommend Samorgaz's Saber Sounds though... Located here: http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=3242 )

Etc etc....
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Old 12-11-2002, 06:54 PM   #85
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That's not a bad idea at all, alough perhaps the maps should come with the promod 3.1 zip so any server runing promod 3.1 would be gaurenteed to have these maps in their rotation, just a thought.

Oh, Mace will be done either tommorow or friday

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Old 12-11-2002, 07:18 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by MMXP
ProMod Media Pack: Saber Sounds (Optional. I do recommend Samorgaz's Saber Sounds though... Located here: http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=3242 )
There cinematic sound pack is much better.. give or take a few of them which wanna make me wretch (saber throw to name one)


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Old 12-11-2002, 08:42 PM   #87
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Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas
Ugh! geeeezzzz...I just knew this was going to come up...
If you are so smart, then you should have taken precautions

Quote:

Okay, here's the deal. I have no intentions of asking for 'permission' for any file. It would be great to have the author's 'blessing', but it's not necessary -and neither is 'permission'. All of these maps, mods, skins, models, and whatever ("MODS") are derivative works. If the author has any issues about certain people or conditions for which their MOD should not be used, then they really had no business releasing it in the first place. It's public domain now -in a way. There is one and ONLY ONE entity who controls any JO MOD's ONCE they are released -and that is LucasArts. You can read the License agreement for yourself if you'd like - I'm paraphrasing, but I'm not making anything up.
I tried hard to find a word inhere that made sense, alas, it's late, and I can't seem to find one. AS SOON AS YOU CREATE SOMETHING IT IS YOUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Apart from that the maps have README FILES includes, and as their name strangely suggests, they are there to be read. You can use no ones map in your mod unless you have permission to do so.

Quote:

MODS are 'shady' in general. I can't think of any MOD I've seen that included the author's full name AND home address.
That's cause we are getting more fanmail that we can handle, and I don't want my fans to be camping in my garden.

Quote:

Usually, you get an alias and an Email. Also, many mods use other copyrighted material -which is expressly NOT allowed. I don't think anyone polices these MOD web sites looking for Darth Vader samples, which is a good thing because I am sure they know that they would find them. They don't look for them because they obviously know that it's just 'fans' having harmless fun, and although copyrights are being violated, it does more harm than good to enforce them in these cases. So I believe they must turn a 'blind eye' to all of this.
So basically your saying, everyone is doing it, so why shouldn't I?

Quote:

Let's not get greedy here, Detritic. We've got a good thing going. Let's keep it that way. If this were the music industry it would be 'lawsuit city'. It's buIIsh1t! Let's NOT go there. If an author of a MOD feels they need to retain control of their work, technically they should have never created it to begin with. But the next best course of action would be simply NOT to release it to the public. Because once that is done, the cat is out of the bag.
I feel that ethics DO come into play here. I object to anyone claiming to have authored someone elses work. I also feel strongly, that credit be given to the author. And that information is legally mandated anyway.
Just to put this into perspective, let's remember WHY these MODs exist in the first place: It showcases talent, and allows us to have communities like this one, or Massassi, and many many others. None of these would exist if the MODs didn't exist. So let's enjoy them for what they are, and leave it at that.
I REALLY REALLY hope that this issue has been put to bed, and that little more will be written about it...
Actually, there wouldn't be an issue if you would do it the right way from the start. I will however agree with you on 1 condition. You allow me to release promod 3.1, and all I'm going to do is change 1 word in the readme file, your name will be changed and UniKorn will come in the place, basically I'm gonna be calling it my creation, since basically that is what you are doing.


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Old 12-12-2002, 10:23 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by UniKorn


If you are so smart, then you should have taken precautions

I tried hard to find a word inhere that made sense, alas, it's late, and I can't seem to find one. AS SOON AS YOU CREATE SOMETHING IT IS YOUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Apart from that the maps have README FILES includes, and as their name strangely suggests, they are there to be read. You can use no ones map in your mod unless you have permission to do so.

That's cause we are getting more fanmail that we can handle, and I don't want my fans to be camping in my garden.

So basically your saying, everyone is doing it, so why shouldn't I?

Actually, there wouldn't be an issue if you would do it the right way from the start. I will however agree with you on 1 condition. You allow me to release promod 3.1, and all I'm going to do is change 1 word in the readme file, your name will be changed and UniKorn will come in the place, basically I'm gonna be calling it my creation, since basically that is what you are doing.


I'm not planning on releasing anything without permission. I'm not planning on releasing anything without giving credit to who created it. I'm neither planning to try to take credit for anyone else's work. I'm just trying to put together a quality compilation for people who don't have the time or inclination to pore through the gigabytes of material available on jkii.net and other community filebases, but who still want to play some different, interesting maps.

I was actually planning on emailing you guys and asking about the inclusion of 1 or 2 of your maps. Should I take it that your answer to that would be "no"?


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Old 12-12-2002, 03:09 PM   #89
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The moment u mail me about it, you will get the permission immediately. But stating that you are not going to ask for it (referring to somebody else's post) is disrespectful to the work that has been put into it.

I'm glad you take this the correct way, you don't need to go to the trouble mailing me about it, you do get my permission. I only have a problem with those not asking for it even when they know they should.

Regards,
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Old 12-12-2002, 03:13 PM   #90
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holy crp, ksk! i love that model!


umm, yeah. so... stuff.
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Old 12-12-2002, 03:22 PM   #91
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thanks happydan, let me know if you want the beta version of the model to test out for yourself
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Old 12-12-2002, 03:57 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by ksk h2o
can't wait for the media pack...

I wish I had enough balls to suggest the model I've been working on, or wish a skilled skinner would give it a better face (I doubt there is enough interest for the character though).

You can check the showcase forum here if you're interested about this low-budget a-la-bollywood production (shameless plug i know )

It would be GREAT to be able to play on some non standard maps for a change. The thing that worries me though...

There are very little promod players at a given time to begin with. Also coupling this with a multi megabit download for the mediapack could shy away even further players.

I could suggest splitting the media pack in two as a small way to alleviate the load: one pack would contain only the maps, while the other pack the player models, and whatnot. This way the first part of the media pack would be indispensable to avoid being booted off mapcycles, but the second part would be optional for your visual pleasure


Actually man, I really like that model you're doing! The subtle texturing on the outfit is really top notch. You should release it as a Jedi Training Robot or something like that. It makes me think of someone dressed in a fencing gear outfit. If you can get some appropriate pain sounds and a botfile together in time, I'd definitely consider it.

One suggestion though, you might want to run it through a Modify->Levels function in Photoshop. The texturing looks great up close, but it'll be hard to see at a distance. I'd suggest either that or darkening the fabric around the joints somewhat.


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Old 12-12-2002, 04:00 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by UniKorn
The moment u mail me about it, you will get the permission immediately. But stating that you are not going to ask for it (referring to somebody else's post) is disrespectful to the work that has been put into it.

I'm glad you take this the correct way, you don't need to go to the trouble mailing me about it, you do get my permission. I only have a problem with those not asking for it even when they know they should.

Regards,
UniKorn.
Cool, glad to hear it man, now i just gotta pick which ones...hmmm...

Are there any of your maps that you'd say were specifically well suited to Promod or competition in general?


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Old 12-12-2002, 04:07 PM   #94
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On splitting up the downloads

Yes, I have taken all the thoughts here into consideration and I do think its wise to split up the packs. They'll be as follows:

Promod Map Pack 1,
Promod Model/Skin Pack 1

This way, someone connecting to a server who has only downloaded the Map Pack will not have to download anything else. This will also allow me to put more models/skins in that pack without having to worry about people on low-bandwidth connections having to download one huge file just to get the maps they need.


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Old 12-12-2002, 08:04 PM   #95
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sure, id love to. lemme know what i need to do
someone should make a skin for the Xmen bad guy called Zero. he was a cool teleporting android.


umm, yeah. so... stuff.
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Old 12-12-2002, 08:11 PM   #96
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The thing is Wolfy, I refuse to have ANY pack with Dooku's saber on/off and swing sounds. They suck. It sounds like a toy, PLUS the on sounds are always weird. I like Sam's sounds because they are mostly easy on the ears, except MAYBE the wall scrape sound.
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Old 12-12-2002, 08:25 PM   #97
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go with the gaiden soundpack.


umm, yeah. so... stuff.
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Old 12-12-2002, 09:26 PM   #98
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Sam's sounds are the same as the cinematics sounds, mostly. I should know, I listened to them last night


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Old 12-13-2002, 04:18 AM   #99
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Post I'm not an attorney, but I play one online (geeesh!)

Quote:
Originally posted by UniKorn


If you are so smart, then you should have taken precautions

Oh, you heard my wife was pregnant? It's okay, we wanted to have another child anyway...


Quote:
Originally posted by UniKorn
I tried hard to find a word inhere that made sense, alas, it's late, and I can't seem to find one. AS SOON AS YOU CREATE SOMETHING IT IS YOUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Apart from that the maps have README FILES includes, and as their name strangely suggests, they are there to be read. You can use no ones map in your mod unless you have permission to do so.


Look UniKorn, I don't know who pissed in your Kornflakes today, but it certainly wasn't me. I didn't make up the rules. You can claim Intellectual Property until you're blue in the face -it doesn't change the legal agreement YOU entered when YOU made a mod (which includes maps) for JO.
Are you aware that LucasArts could (for example) take one (or all) of your fantastic maps and use them in a version 1.05 release for JO? They could do that! And they wouldn't have to ask your permission to do it -or-(and get this) COMPENSATE you in ANY way for your work!!!

Hey, but don't take my word for it -read on, my friend:

Quote:
Excerpts from the License you agreed to when you installed JediOutcast -you DID bother to read it, didn't you???

MODs may, or may not, be permitted by LEC, in its sole discretion, provided that you agree that the following conditions apply to your creation of any MODs:

* MODs may not be designed to be used as a stand-alone product.

* (5) MODs must identify in every description file, on-line description, read-me, and in comments in the MOD code (if new code is added): (a) the name, address, and e-mail address of the levelís creators, and (b) the following disclaimer: "THIS LEVEL IS NOT MADE, DISTRIBUTED, Bla-Bla-Bla
You probably know the disclaimer part already. It does sound like you better get ready for some "fans camping in your garden" though...

* (6) MODs may not be sold, bartered, or distributed on a stand alone basis or with any other product for which any charge is made, including, without limitation, renting, leasing, retail sales and/or on-line electronic distribution (other than incidental charges for time spent on-line), but rather must be distributed free of charge.

Of particular note are the words "any charge". I see that as meaning a 'condition' which must be met in order to gain the right to use the MOD. It could be money you expect to be paid. It could be the right to use other MODS (in other words:"I'll let you use my MOD, but only if you let me use your MOD). It could also mean HAVING TO GET PERMISSION from you to use it.

"Free of charge" means 'without conditions'.


READ THE FOLLOWING OUT LOUD.....

* By distributing or permitting the distribution of any MODs, all creators or owners of any trademark, copyright, or other right, title or interest therein grant to LEC an irrevocable, perpetual, royalty-free, sublicensable right to distribute the MOD by any means (whether now known or hereafter invented), and to create and distribute by any means (whether now known or hereafter invented) derivative works thereof, and to charge for the distribution of such MOD or such derivative work, with no obligation to account to any creators or owners of the MOD in any manner.
So basically, your term "intellectual Property" -as you put it- holds no meaning, because it serves no function.
Still think nothing I originally posted made any sense???

There are good and valid reasons for those rules, by the way:
One is to keep people like you from spoiling everyone's fun by saying things like;
"You can't use MY mod cause I said so, nyah!"

-Or-

"People can only use MY mod if they pay me a dollar each time they use it!"


Another reason is simply to keep Modders 'legal'! Without those rules and provisions, LucasArts would probably have to have you arrested for mucking around with their software.

This way everybody gets to share in the goodness.
Gamers get cool extras for their games.
LucasArts gets extended shelf-life for their software.
Modder's get to become computer gurus by tinkering with commercial software, and end up making big $$$ designing stuff like Jar Jar Binks or a CG Yoda for Industrial Lights & Magic -and don't say that'll NEVER happen, I've got a childhood friend who is a big time animator for Disney. College degrees mean nothing compared to a kick-a$$ portfolio...


Syfo ~ Dyas

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Old 12-13-2002, 05:11 AM   #100
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Syfo I think what Unikorn was trying to point out was not the legal aspect of things but just the ethical, courteous side of things. Su re you may legally not need to do anything but a short email to the creator of the artwork is not like sawing your arm off and will probably be accepted with a lot of enthusiasm and support. Modders and modelers do put a lot of personal time into their work and are allready getting shafted by their wifes/gf's and friends for becoming a ghost, so they just dont want people passing their hard work as their own without noting origin. Although the legal side may give LEC godlike powers, the community itself yould at least operate with some courtesy among itself

Art, thanks man, glad you think my model isn't crap. Having it in the media pack would be beyond all my expectations for the model, and "jack-nicholson-cool." The model allready has a botfile and all the custom pain sounds for every damage level. My problem is the skin bit. since I'm not a skinner, I'm having a hell of a time making the model look decent. sure I have the photoshop skills to hold my own on a FARK thread but skinning... whew.... I cant really draw with a mouse you see. And all my scanned hand drawings are out of scale... plus coloring and texturing these hand drawings isn't something I know how to do.

I'll take a shot at the function you suggested to make the texture a little more visible. However the skin that is on it right now is really only a reference skin for the head and a modified shadowtrooper skin for the body. I happen to like it as well, for some lucky reason the faded out trooper skin, imho, came out really well. I'm trying to add a metallic effect shader to it to make it look a little better but so far had no luck. The only shader I got to work was a blinking and neon glow effect for the eye. I know the model would look a lot better with a real, new, skin but I need exterior help for this to become a reality. I'll send you and happydan a copy of the model once I try to fix up the skin texture and try my luck with shaders again so you can tell me what you think.
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Old 12-13-2002, 11:00 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by ksk h2o
...Art, thanks man, glad you think my model isn't crap. Having it in the media pack would be beyond all my expectations for the model, and "jack-nicholson-cool." The model allready has a botfile and all the custom pain sounds for every damage level. My problem is the skin bit. since I'm not a skinner, I'm having a hell of a time making the model look decent. sure I have the photoshop skills to hold my own on a FARK thread but skinning... whew.... I cant really draw with a mouse you see. And all my scanned hand drawings are out of scale... plus coloring and texturing these hand drawings isn't something I know how to do.

I'll take a shot at the function you suggested to make the texture a little more visible. However the skin that is on it right now is really only a reference skin for the head and a modified shadowtrooper skin for the body. I happen to like it as well, for some lucky reason the faded out trooper skin, imho, came out really well. I'm trying to add a metallic effect shader to it to make it look a little better but so far had no luck. The only shader I got to work was a blinking and neon glow effect for the eye. I know the model would look a lot better with a real, new, skin but I need exterior help for this to become a reality. I'll send you and happydan a copy of the model once I try to fix up the skin texture and try my luck with shaders again so you can tell me what you think.


You also might try posting in the skinning thread that you have a model available for texturing if someone wants to give it a shot. Fortunately for you, the model itself is pretty neutral shape-wise so there's a lot of latitude for skinners to go crazy with it. Keep working on the Jedi Saber Training Droid angle--that's something that's not been done before.


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Old 12-13-2002, 11:39 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX
Keep working on the Jedi Saber Training Droid angle--that's something that's not been done before.
that reminds me of the droid vader was training against in the sote comic.


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Old 12-13-2002, 03:04 PM   #103
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Jedi Saber Training Droid huh? It does sound pretty neat. Unfortunately I have spent a lot of time getting Gray Fox' sounds out of the game and into the model and worked hard to make the facemask open-up to reveal his face... but I have an idea.

Since I dont seem to be getting lots of skiners interested in helping me out and since he currently does not have Grey fox' skin, I could have this version be a jedi trainig droid and try to edit the sounds for that. I do think the current skin, especially after the level adjustments and the chrome shader, looks pretty neat.

This way if you do include it in promod media pack it will be an exclusive model for promod.

I'll later (if ever) release the MGS Ninja version which has the faceplates open to reveal the face, once a skinner touches it up and skins him with Gray Fox' color scheme.

The open faceplates look pretty damn cool though... maybe if I change the face under the mask I can also have the droid version with that feature. Only instead of a face you'd be seeing an episode1-c3po-like droid face mechanism.

Whadaya think?
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Old 12-13-2002, 04:24 PM   #104
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Exclamation Re: Ok guys, it's time

Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX

Syfo: you need to go through all the maps and see if they've got bot support, and judge their quality, then do the same with the models/skins. Once you've got a short list, pass that along to me and I'll see about getting it put up on my server for some beta testing.

Remember, I'm looking for around 3 duel maps, 3 ffa maps, and 3 ctf maps. Once I look at how big that download will be, we'll see how many models and skins we can get into the game also.
Will do!

All of the maps on the list have BOT support, and pass my quality tests. Beta testing will be a GOOD idea, since my judgement on what makes a map well designed in terms of gameplay is subpar at best.

It's going to be difficult in the 'dual' catagory to stay within just 3 maps, since some of them are in packs and all are equally cool.

I'll put them together and send them off to you.


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Old 12-13-2002, 07:17 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by ksk h2o
The open faceplates look pretty damn cool though... maybe if I change the face under the mask I can also have the droid version with that feature. Only instead of a face you'd be seeing an episode1-c3po-like droid face mechanism.

Whadaya think?
How bout making it like the vader model? With g_dismember turned on slashin their head off = the shell of the droid comes off revealing the parts inside?


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Old 12-14-2002, 01:25 AM   #106
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The new Windu model by Arco and Toonces, 'MUST' be included.
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Old 12-14-2002, 02:21 AM   #107
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Yeah, it does. Needs a better bot, though.


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Old 12-14-2002, 03:52 AM   #108
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How so? It's one of the few bots that can actually kill me

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Old 12-14-2002, 05:28 AM   #109
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I checked the .jkb, the stats are weak and force powers from both sides are selected though it only uses dark side (which shouldn't even be selected in the first place) and it shouldn't even have guns (of any kind) at higher than 0.. My opinion anyways. I've edited my Windu's files so don't really concern me no more


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Old 12-14-2002, 05:33 AM   #110
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Ok, problem solved, just make your own bots, that's not a problem with me as long as you don't distribute it with my model.

Sorry you don't like it, but it's how I made it. I made him Dark Side to give him a little "edge"

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Old 12-14-2002, 03:35 PM   #111
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Yeah but he's not a Sith, he's a Jedi. He doesn't need an "edge".


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Old 12-14-2002, 04:18 PM   #112
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Your viewing force powers like the game does, I'm thinking of them more like the movie (Luke using grip)

I've been a big fan of Samuel L. Jackson since he began his acting career and the charecters he usually plays have an "edge" to them. I feel Mace does as well. Just after he slices off Jango's head he has a strange look on his face, like he's feeling the Dark Side.

I don't mean to be rude, and your complaint is one I knew I'd get, but you can (and did) make a bot for your own personal use so that critisim while noted, is irrelevant.

Don't take my comments the wrong way, I mean them with the utmost respect, I just like bending the rules sometime

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Old 12-14-2002, 05:48 PM   #113
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Luke never used grip... And anyways, I can see your point and I don't want to start a flame war, nor did I mean my comments as criticism. But you should note that bots CANNOT have both light and dark force. If they could don't you think everybody would give bots maxed out force powers?

I suppose I am more viewing things as black and white, but also the only way the game views things. Now I role play, my character does have powers which would most likely never be seen on a pure Sith or Jedi, but like I said, the game only views the force powers as light and dark. And if Mace was goin to have darkside powers, it probably be the blade master class.. I mean EVERYBODY knows how bad@$$ he is with that sucker!


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Old 12-14-2002, 06:27 PM   #114
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I thought it was grip in RotJ, but anyway

I gotta release a bug fix so if you wanna make a bot for mace I'll include it. That way everybody will have an "official" choice

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Old 12-14-2002, 06:38 PM   #115
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Originally posted by Toonces
I thought it was grip in RotJ, but anyway
it is... in one way or another he asphyxiates the guards.


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Old 12-14-2002, 07:13 PM   #116
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I'll be glad to make another bot. I personally believed that Mace's dialogue could have been edited.. I'll send it to your e-mail address provided on your homepage.


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Old 12-16-2002, 06:30 PM   #117
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The thing is Wolfy, I refuse to have ANY pack with Dooku's saber on/off and swing sounds. They suck. It sounds like a toy, PLUS the on sounds are always weird. I like Sam's sounds because they are mostly easy on the ears, except MAYBE the wall scrape sound.
I agree about Dooku's saber sounds. I like them, but they don't work in the game at all. They are WAY too harsh.

Sam's Saber Sounds is exceptional, however. I downloaded them and gave em a try, and they really do add to game. They make saber duals sound more 'aggressive' and 'exciting'. I really thing they should be part of the MediaPak, and should come with ProMod.

A cool Mod like ProMod, which has focused so much attention toward giving the Lightsaber it's due, really SHOULD have some cool sounds to go with it! Sam did a great job sampling these sounds. My only complaint is the afore mentioned "wall scrape" sound, and that the sound levels are a little too high.

I'd be willing to go in and reduce their volume just a bit -to get them ballanced. I can also fix the "scraping" sound to something that won't sound so harsh. Also depending at the compression rate they were encoded, I might be able to re-encode the MP3's make it a smaller file.

On a similar note: I just replaced the 'Thunder' sounds for SavageX's VERY COOL duel map "Soul Chamber of the Sith" (file is just called "SithChamber". The original sounds were pretty grainy sounded (like 8-bit samples) and very short, and honestly didn't sound that much like thunder. The new thunder samples are much longer, and sound REALLY nice. I think they work well with the 'feel' of the map.

Now, you might be thinking; "okay sure, new better sounding and longer sounds means the file size is probably twice as large", right? Well, you're wrong! The original sounds were in 'wav' format. The new sounds are Mp3's. The file is now almost half of it's original size! I'm mentioning this because I'm very pleased with how it turned out, and also because I'm quite sure this map will end up in the MediaPak, and so this will help save space. Plus you all get to play a really cool map with better sounds.


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Old 12-16-2002, 06:37 PM   #118
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Originally posted by Syfo-Dyas
I'd be willing to go in and reduce their volume just a bit -to get them ballanced. I can also fix the "scraping" sound to something that won't sound so harsh.
PLEASE DO!

I've tried MANY sound mods for this game, and each and every one of them had that little annoying quirk that stopped me from loving it completely. The loud wall scrape sound made my ears bleed every friggin' time I heard it - otherwise it's pure gold.



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Old 12-16-2002, 06:51 PM   #119
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The on/off sounds are NOT from dooku's saber!!


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Old 12-16-2002, 07:36 PM   #120
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I was referring specifically to the Dooku on/off sound. Somebody had sampled them and put them up for download. This is different from Sam's sounds. Sorry for the confusion.

Also Wolf Devil, I got the link to the file you posted, but it was rejected by their server. I guess they have a problem with people posting links like that.


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