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Old 02-09-2003, 06:44 PM   #1
irishpump
 
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FrameRates in maps, and fog

Usually my framerate is about 120-150. The map im working on right now is getting rather big. Ill see the framerate drop to about 50 in some parts of the map. My eyes really cant tell much difference but i see it in the numbers. Now my map isnt extremely huge yet. Im about 40 percent done with it. But its got a lot of draw distance to it. Meaning its a long map with some good open space in the center, lots of detail, and lighting effects. So im wondering if i use a certain amount of fog in my map will i help increase framerate for the map?
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Old 02-09-2003, 07:18 PM   #2
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I think any fog will lower your framerate.
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Old 02-09-2003, 07:27 PM   #3
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If you add fog to an already large open area it needs to be accent fog. Even then you will lose some framerate.

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Old 02-09-2003, 07:50 PM   #4
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What are some good ways to increase framerate otherthan the obvious "make detail" of textures?
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Old 02-09-2003, 08:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by irishpump
What are some good ways to increase framerate otherthan the obvious "make detail" of textures?
Area portal brushes (for doors) and Hint brushes help FR.

I am not sure how to use hints in a large open area though.

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Old 02-09-2003, 09:21 PM   #6
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I do believe hes talking about distance culling and the use of fog to mask this distance cull...
If thats what your asking then yes it will increase framerate... as only a X amount of distance away from the player is ever drawn...

I do believe you are confused as to the purpuse of detial.
Simply put -- The use of detail NEVER helps framerate, only compile times...

For large areas its might be best to use distance culling, although this might look odd if you have both indoor and out door areas, then again you could always increase you distance while indoors...


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Old 02-09-2003, 09:39 PM   #7
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Ok ill give the fog a try. A certain level of fog in my map would look pretty sharp since its a dusk time period. So detailing brushes doesnt help framerate? I always thought it did because that meant when loading the map that it wouldnt have to draw certain parts of a brush. Oh man in mohradient if you didnt detail your brushes you would see massive framerate drops in certain areas on your map, then the obvious was the cut in compile time.
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Old 02-10-2003, 01:58 PM   #8
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Hey S20, What exactly is distance culling? Ive often wondered what it is/means and how to do it.

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Old 02-10-2003, 02:14 PM   #9
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are you using caulking?


-NATE
Right now I'm not assigned yet to anything...but am working on the team for the darkforces mod.
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Old 02-10-2003, 04:21 PM   #10
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Red face

Nate im gonna pretend you didnt ask me that considering it insults me
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Old 02-10-2003, 04:30 PM   #11
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lol

ok. Just making sure. You know that is a resonable cause for low frame rates (but of course you knew that to)


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Right now I'm not assigned yet to anything...but am working on the team for the darkforces mod.
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Old 02-10-2003, 05:04 PM   #12
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yeah i touch upon that above when im talking about detailing brushes. Doesnt do anygood if youre not using caulk. Its distance its a large map. But its already been covered
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Old 02-10-2003, 06:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Hey S20, What exactly is distance culling? Ive often wondered what it is/means and how to do it.
Distance culling is a method like: the engine doesn't draw things which are farther than a certain distance.

You can set it in the worldspawn with distancecull <distance in game units> If you have large areas it can look strange, that things suddenly appear as you walk, so using a fog with the same visibility value as distancecull gives you a little extra framerate and masks the strange effect.


L. J.
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Old 02-10-2003, 07:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leslie Judge
Distance culling is a method like: the engine doesn't draw things which are farther than a certain distance.

You can set it in the worldspawn with distancecull <distance in game units> If you have large areas it can look strange, that things suddenly appear as you walk, so using a fog with the same visibility value as distancecull gives you a little extra framerate and masks the strange effect.
Ah, thanks Leslie.

BTW, just saw the updated screenshots on your site. Looking very good!

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Old 02-11-2003, 09:06 AM   #15
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One Little question: How do I see the Framrate?
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Old 02-11-2003, 09:34 AM   #16
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type cg_drawfps 1 in the console to display your current framerates.


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Old 08-14-2003, 10:38 PM   #17
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Setting Distance Cull & Fog

What are the key/pair settings for distance culling (L.J. mentioned distancecull 1000 or other value) and how do you set the fog (& fog colour)? Is it another key/pair or do you have to do something else?
I have a large outdoor map and I'm trying to add a heavy oppressive atmosphere, but using normal fog just slows everything down.

Most important though is does it work on a MP map?

BTW pre-order Jedi Academy now and keep the series going (Hopefully on valve's source engine or the doom3 engine)

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Old 08-15-2003, 12:56 AM   #18
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key "_fog" value "textures/yourmap/yourfogshader"

That'll create the specified fog through your entire map.


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Old 08-15-2003, 01:06 AM   #19
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Someone explain to me why you guys always think that using CAULK improves framerate? Because I have seen many maps DEFAULT and CUSTOM that don not take FULL advantage of CAULK and they get full or maximum framerate. As far as I know caulking is for faster compile and thats about it. Yes you need to caulk, but if you leave some areas it wont affect framerate as far as I can tell from mapping and testing.

I do know that PATCH meshes, LOTS of FOG and GLASS kill framerate. As goes the same with lots of WATER and BIG OPEN SPACES. Too many brushes can also have an effect on FPS. I know because I have experimented with this problem. But that is a minor one compared to GLASS or open space.

My suggestion for open space if you can do it is to place MODELS in the space to try and create more PORTALS. Try and lower the SKYBOX if you can or at least cut the corners of it. HINT brushes are another thing all together. I tried to use them all over the place in my if_bespin map without success. I spent 2 days trying to place them in certain spots and then re-BSP the map. A long pprocess with no success so.......Meh....


My kung fu is also very weak
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Old 08-15-2003, 02:07 AM   #20
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Question

Thanks for the info

So I take it that the drawdistance for the fog is set in the referenced shader? Or can it be set in the world value?

Monsoontide
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Old 08-15-2003, 02:20 AM   #21
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Where are the fog textures? I looked in the fog sahder file and they all point to textures/fogs/xxxxxx but I can't seem to find any such folder! Is there one?
If not, what should I point the key at in order for it to find a fog shader?
Hmmm... the key: distancecull value: xx doesn't seem to be working. Any clues?

Thanks

Monsoontide

Last edited by monsoontide; 08-15-2003 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 08-15-2003, 04:18 AM   #22
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I cant find those files either man...LOL....I will try to find them but I think that stuff is housed in the QVM code...maybe.....


My kung fu is also very weak
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Old 08-15-2003, 07:10 AM   #23
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In all honesty, caulk doesn't do much anymore. Q3Map2 has some pretty reliable unseen surface culling, so you only truely need it when it fails, or when using detail brushes. You can use r_showtris 1 to determine what areas got ****ed up and need to be caulked.

If something has caulk on it, Q3Map2 might ignore it when it does its autocull thing, but I'm not sure. Most people who say caulk really helps just feel insecure not using it.


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Old 08-15-2003, 04:41 PM   #24
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Thank you EMON!!


My kung fu is also very weak
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Old 08-19-2003, 07:03 PM   #25
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O.K., sorted out problem! The test room I was using was too small so the effects weren't showing up properly.
For anyone else wanting to try this, the key/values for your worldspawn (i.e. click on any normal brush and then bring up the entity window)
DISTANCE CULL
key: distancecull / value: 0000 (any numeric number, beyond which items won't be drawn - unless they cross over this line - so if a object is closer than the cull distance it will still be drawn, even if it extends past the cull distance - at least from what I could tell.)
GLOBAL FOG
key: fog / value: textures/fogs/cairn_red (example)
NOTE: this points to a shader file so no extension .jpg, .tga is needed - you will also need to check the shader file to see what the cull value is for the fog. It should be LESS than the distancecull value or it will not be drawn. Also, this global fog will not draw in front of a skybox shader (At least the fogs I tried wouldn't - if anyone knows how to change this, let me know please!)

Hope this helps anyone who wants to add a bit of atmosphere to their levels!

Monsoontide
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Old 08-28-2003, 09:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Area portal brushes (for doors) and Hint brushes help FR.
Okay, how do you use portal brushes on doors and how do you use hint brushes?


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