lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Sexual Equality
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 03-27-2003, 12:37 PM   #1
Eldritch
Mmm, Donuts
 
Eldritch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,216
Sexual Equality

Do you think that sexual equality has been achieved in the workplaces of the world? Why, or why not?

Personally, I think it's an overwhelming 'No,' at least here in the US, but i'm curious as to the situation in other countries.

Eldritch is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-27-2003, 02:03 PM   #2
griff38
 
griff38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: IN THE MACHINE
Posts: 938
Thumbs up along way baby

Well we have certainly come along way but yes I agree with you it has along way to go.

I don't believe there is a conspiracy to keep women down, but some men do close ranks and exclude female equals sometimes on purpose and sometimes with out being aware of what they are doing.

I would love to tell you why this happens but I am not in a mood to start a new fire fight with the provincials.

griff38 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-27-2003, 02:10 PM   #3
Clem
Clemtastic
 
Clem's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,863
another generation and we'll be alot closer

atm. tho .... no

but positive discrimination isnt the answer people


This sig does not exist

the fact ur reading this ... is probably an effect of the hallucinogenic drugs u've just taken

Clem is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-27-2003, 02:41 PM   #4
Breton
Ta deg en bolle
 
Breton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,398
Sexual equality has been achieved in most places, but not all. But the largest problem with these women right organisations is that they only want to turn it the other way around. Heck, in some cases, women actually have more rights than men, but no one cares about them. These women right organisations are not pro sexual equality, they are pro turning it the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, of course. I am really for sexual equality.
Breton is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-27-2003, 05:03 PM   #5
Eldritch
Mmm, Donuts
 
Eldritch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,216
Quote:
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
Sexual equality has been achieved in most places, but not all. But the largest problem with these women right organisations is that they only want to turn it the other way around. Heck, in some cases, women actually have more rights than men, but no one cares about them. These women right organisations are not pro sexual equality, they are pro turning it the other way around.

Don't get me wrong, of course. I am really for sexual equality.
Good point. I'm for sexual equality as well, but like you said, many women are more intent on getting more than their share, rather than an equal share.
Granted, women were oppressed by men (generally speaking) in the past, but that's no reason to flip it around now. You can't seek to dominate under the banner of equality.

Eldritch is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-27-2003, 05:36 PM   #6
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by Aru-Wen
Good point. I'm for sexual equality as well, but like you said, many women are more intent on getting more than their share, rather than an equal share.
Granted, women were oppressed by men (generally speaking) in the past, but that's no reason to flip it around now. You can't seek to dominate under the banner of equality.
W3RD. (what jm and aru said goes for me too)


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-29-2003, 01:56 AM   #7
ET Warrior
PhD in horribleness
 
ET Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Evil League of Evil
Posts: 9,405
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
I'm pretty much in agreement with everyone here. I'm all for equality of the sexes.....even though i always put down girls just to get a rise out of them in class I also hate women superiority groups though, they're so irritating....



ET Warrior is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-29-2003, 10:19 AM   #8
Darklighter
Bliss Ninny
 
Darklighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Englandland
Posts: 4,507
Current Game: Uncharted 3
10 year veteran! LFN Staff Member 
The thing is, I believe in equality of sexes, and I think the majority of people here would argue that this equality has not been achieved, and who believe in equality. Yet there are numerous women superiority groups, like you said ET, who are intent on proving that women are better than men, when in fact most men want just equality. I'm doing all about feminism in English at the moment, and how they believe that men are the weaker sex...it's all a load of bull crap to be honest. I don't think either sex is weaker, which is why should all have equal share in things. In terms of equality, we have progressed so much in the last 100 years or so. I bet someday though, these women superiority people will have their way lol


"Yeah no one likes a smart ass, but we all like stars,
But that wasn't my intention, I did it for a reason..."
Darklighter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-29-2003, 10:26 AM   #9
C'jais
Spicy Viking Boy
 
C'jais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Soviet Scandinavistan
Posts: 4,345
Without going into social Darwinism, men are indeed the stronger sex, if raw muscle mass is what it's based upon.

No, the two different sexes are not equal, nor will they ever be, but we can at least hope for equal wages on jobs where men and women can do the same job equally well.


Better to be hated for who you are, than loved for who you're not.

Member of The Scandinavian Clique

My LiveJournal
C'jais is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-29-2003, 10:48 PM   #10
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by C'jais
Without going into social Darwinism
but unfortunately thats what the world is running in. i think we can hope for equal wages but like just about everything else there will never be equality without idiocy. i'll try to have a report for ya'll tommorow. i did a report on equality but one of the things is for all the wrongs there is always a wanting for equal opposites meaning the people who were wronged need to be in control for a while then they will balance it out after their vengeance is satisfied. but then the other group will want to do the same thus it will never stop. but ill try to have a good report tommorow.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-30-2003, 07:24 AM   #11
lassev
cryptoscripter
 
lassev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,087
Quote:
but we can at least hope for equal wages on jobs where men and women can do the same job equally well
One funny thing here, which is mostly forgotten, is a one small fact about wages. Nowadays they are not (always) equal, but the thing is: companys and governments save always money when somebody does the same job, equally good, but still takes less money than the guy next to her. As long as this is a universal way of action, why would the wage payer change it? They save real money.
lassev is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-02-2003, 05:29 AM   #12
ShadowTemplar
Heathen
 
ShadowTemplar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,068
Curiously after we started negotiating individual pay in Denmark, income disperancy between men and women started climbing again...
ShadowTemplar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-04-2003, 07:43 PM   #13
CagedCrado
 
CagedCrado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 416
Its like that with all minorities and women. They all want more and usually none of them want equality. (giving them money, affirmitive action, all this bs etc) I live in south dakota, its in the midwest, and recently the native americans (or indians as they actually prefer to be called believe it or not, and what they call themselves) recently boycotted mcdonalds and wal mart because an indian man was shot because he came after a cop carrying a knife... in this case it is bull ****. Wanting equality is different from wanting to be treated better and wanting money.... they should ask to be treated the same because right now they are treated better! (american indian are, black people usually are, same with latinos but less so), honestly the only group treated worse than the others is asian.
CagedCrado is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-04-2003, 07:49 PM   #14
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by CagedCrado
Its like that with all minorities and women. They all want more and usually none of them want equality. (giving them money, affirmitive action, all this bs etc) I live in south dakota, its in the midwest, and recently the native americans (or indians as they actually prefer to be called believe it or not, and what they call themselves) recently boycotted mcdonalds and wal mart because an indian man was shot because he came after a cop carrying a knife... in this case it is bull ****. Wanting equality is different from wanting to be treated better and wanting money.... they should ask to be treated the same because right now they are treated better! (american indian are, black people usually are, same with latinos but less so), honestly the only group treated worse than the others is asian.
you call not being allowed to live outside a certain area being treated better. damn dude you just dont learn do you?!?! as a native american descendant I'm appauled at how idiotic you are by saying indians are being treated better. sure better than when they were being slaughtered for fun but still being allowed only to live inside one area is not good its called concentration camp.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-04-2003, 07:53 PM   #15
CagedCrado
 
CagedCrado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 416
I live here and i have seen these so called concentration camps. Free SUBURBANS free HOUSES and thats not just the ones that live on the reservation, thats the ones that live in the CITIES!!!! wow.... 12% of the population in the city i live in is native american and the state is 10%, sounds like they are contained in a small area huh? (btw i live in the second largest city)

It is in no way a concentration camp. Trust me. Im not at all racist, i have many friends that are native american, and to say that they are in a concentration camp is an uninformed response.

Oh ya and if i could prove i was a native american, id gladly live in this 'concentration camp' and have a free house and suburban, free college, medical, and the right to be a pain in the ass to everybody else.

I agree the reservation needs to be gotten rid of since it promotes this bs, but they are treated very very fairly.
CagedCrado is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-04-2003, 10:36 PM   #16
Eldritch
Mmm, Donuts
 
Eldritch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,216
Alright guys, chill and be friends, ok?

It's a little off-topic, but I think that in most cases the US is trying to right the wrongs that it did with the Native Americans. But like living anywhere in the US, they have a choice. I think most stay in the reservations due to the reasons Crado mentioned - free hospital, medical care, school, etc... but that doesn't mean they can't leave whenever they want to.
And Sith, calling it a concentration camp is a bit of a stretch, and a slap in the face to anyone who lived through one. No one is killed and/or tortured on reservations in the same way the Jews were in Nazi Concentration camps.

Eldritch is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-05-2003, 10:18 AM   #17
Commander Bond
 
Commander Bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Universal Exports.
Posts: 65
I'm hailing from London, England. I run my own business: a small financial advising firm. I, for one, am all for female equallity in the workplace...

...I let my female employees work longer so they can earn as much as the men!

That was just a little joke, although I do run my own little financial advising company. I have three employees: two men and one woman. There has been no problem with the different sexes, and I pay each person according to their post. The woman even earns more than one of the men at the moment, although he is in line for a raise soon. But, enough of me rambling.

This is only a small company, though. There are only four people in the office, so I can't tell you about larger companies/workplaces. However, as I say, there is no problem at my company!

By the way... the woman is fired. Joking!


"I think I'll find another way,
There's so much more to know.
I guess I'll die another day,
It's not my time to go.

For every sin, I'll have to pay,
A time to work, a time to play.
I think I'll find another way,
It's not my time to go."
Commander Bond is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-06-2003, 10:05 PM   #18
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by Eldritch
Alright guys, chill and be friends, ok?

It's a little off-topic, but I think that in most cases the US is trying to right the wrongs that it did with the Native Americans. But like living anywhere in the US, they have a choice. I think most stay in the reservations due to the reasons Crado mentioned - free hospital, medical care, school, etc... but that doesn't mean they can't leave whenever they want to.
do you realize that the hospitals aren't free because of the government but because the indians now run them independently and the schools are not up to date because they have no way to get good supplies and they can't leave, noone wants them anywhere oh and crado you make arguments as they are living in the past well so is america for not shutting up about 9/11 thats in the past. and the native americans are still being treated badly. they have people coming in and stealing from them killing them and the police doing nothing and people wont let them leave because once again noone wants them. i do but im just me and apparently my words of truth can't change a biggots heart and opinion.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-07-2003, 05:02 PM   #19
ioshee
 
ioshee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mocation
Posts: 102
There is definitely not equality at the workplace. This girl I work with always gets treated very well by upper management because she wears low-cut blouses and short skirts. I tried that last Friday and they asked me to go home and change. That’s not very fair.

I agree with something C’jais said. Men and women are not equal and never will be (well never say never, we could evolve to be equal in another quadrillion years.)

I don’t think women will ever be cut out to do certain things like be President of the United States for one little reason: hormones. It’s a scientific fact that men are not affected as drastically by hormones as women are. Just look at that poor woman who drowned her kids in the bathtub because of postpartum depression (sarcasm intended.)

My point is that women claim to be special when it benefits them and they claim to be equal when it benefits them. That’s just idiotic.
ioshee is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-09-2003, 11:40 PM   #20
Pisces
Boredboredboredboredbored
 
Pisces's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: ...right'ere
Posts: 3,683
Forum Veteran 
*eye begins twitching*

Sorry, but I always wind up talking about this with my feminist girl friends and I always wind up getting slapped. Sort of an annoying topic for me, but I still feel strongly about it.

I think that if you even things out we have equality but men have it better in some aspects of the job and women have it better in other aspects.

I've heard of men, even though they were better qualified, applied first and maybe one or two other things, get turned down for a job and a women hired because the company, or place of work didn't have 'enough' female employees and were getting berated over it.

On the flip side, many people know that in some jobs women are held to the same physical standards as men, and because women are naturally weaker, slower etc. (in general) than men, they end up laid off, or demoted or such.

These are two general, broad points though, nothing about any specific jobs.

And like ioshee said
Quote:
women claim to be special when it benefits them and they claim to be equal when it benefits them. That’s just idiotic.
"Women fight to be equal in the workplace but don't fight to be included in the draft".


Quotes until I feel like changing them
You have an intellect rivaled only by that of garden tools
Pisces is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-10-2003, 07:15 PM   #21
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by NeoDios

"Women fight to be equal in the workplace but don't fight to be included in the draft".
if you read the original womens lib speeches they demanded with extra emphasis that they be allowed the right to be drafted. and men do the same when it's a female boss (well those that don't have any issues with sexual morality) also many male (usually over the age of 36) treat all women of the work place as sexual objects infact many women are hired because of their looks and not their talent or skills. women are also hired over men because the guy can't get any action so he has to intimidate a women that he hires into sleeping with him i found a chart somewhere that backs up what i say. i could try and find one on the net but it says that over 80% of women who are hired have been pressured by a boss into having sex with them and were hired only for that. so it's not that it's necessarily their fault some old guys sex drive shot up when she walked into the office.also women don't get much in the work place unless they flirt. unfortunately i have witnessed this first hand.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-10-2003, 08:02 PM   #22
Pisces
Boredboredboredboredbored
 
Pisces's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: ...right'ere
Posts: 3,683
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
if you read the original womens lib speeches they demanded with extra emphasis that they be allowed the right to be drafted.
Really? Cool. All right, well then, so long as they're trying to be equal in everything, it's all good.


Quotes until I feel like changing them
You have an intellect rivaled only by that of garden tools
Pisces is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-10-2003, 08:06 PM   #23
Thrackan Solo
 
Thrackan Solo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho, or does it exist?
Posts: 904
Should we hire women just because of sexual equality? what if she has less experience than a man? do you want your business to run less efficiently just because you want more equality in the work place?
Whats next? you want equal women and men POW's?


I bow before the spoon.
Thrackan Solo is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-10-2003, 08:08 PM   #24
wedge2211
Commander, Rogue Squadron
 
wedge2211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 2,320
Funny, I was about to bring that up myself. I REALLY wish that the states of America could pass the Equal Rights Amendment, which would essentially alter the Constitution/Amendments to state "men and women" or "citizens" in all cases where it currently says, "men." I'm all for it. If you ask a woman, they won't in their right mind say no to that, it sounds awesome. But, this thing was vetoed when it was proposed. The reason? An ultrafeminist campaigned HARD to get it vetoed, because it would subject women to the draft. I'm all for that, along with the rest of the ERA. In fact, women in the military now are playing an extremely important role, so far as I know, the only positions they are not allowed to occupy are infantry and submarine positions, though I may be wrong about that. But they certainly are capable...Jessica Lynch was captured shooting.

My ex-girlfriend goes to an all-women's college. THOSE I can't stand, along with men's schools. Why should anyone believe that the sexes need to be segregated in education? By doing that, you implicitly admit that the sexes are unequal, one way or the other, which I believe is totally unacceptable.

Interesting to be discussing this in an online gaming community, where screen names hide gender but most people here seem to be speaking as males...


wedge2211 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 06:33 AM   #25
Bonedemon
 
Bonedemon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 27
You could consider pregnancy as draft. I mean most women get 2-3 children. That is 12-18 months of trouble with your body. The first three months aren´t bad, or so I´ve been told. After that the mother has to breast-feed and so on. In the US army there are women everywhere except in the combat parts.

Men and women are phychologically and physically different. Equal wages and the like are required IMO, but I guess that women and men will simply seek different jobs because they think differently.
Bonedemon is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 08:35 AM   #26
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
Should we hire women just because of sexual equality? what if she has less experience than a man? do you want your business to run less efficiently just because you want more equality in the work place?
no i dont think we should hire women just because of sexual equality but most women are hired over men because male bosses tend to use them as a sexual tool in the workplace.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 08:37 AM   #27
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by wedge2211

My ex-girlfriend goes to an all-women's college. THOSE I can't stand, along with men's schools. Why should anyone believe that the sexes need to be segregated in education? By doing that, you implicitly admit that the sexes are unequal, one way or the other, which I believe is totally unacceptable.
those schools have to do more with religion. they think that co-ed or just men-women colleges lead to pre-marital sex silly christians (no offence but they tend to be catholic schools, baptist schools, or presbyterian schools)


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 10:38 AM   #28
ioshee
 
ioshee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Mocation
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally posted by Bonedemon
You could consider pregnancy as draft. I mean most women get 2-3 children. That is 12-18 months of trouble with your body. The first three months aren´t bad, or so I´ve been told. After that the mother has to breast-feed and so on. In the US army there are women everywhere except in the combat parts.
What are you talking about?!? Do you know what a draft is?


Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
... also many male (usually over the age of 36) treat all women of the work place as sexual objects infact many women are hired because of their looks and not their talent or skills....
Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
no i dont think we should hire women just because of sexual equality but most women are hired over men because male bosses tend to use them as a sexual tool in the workplace.
Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
those schools have to do more with religion. they think that co-ed or just men-women colleges lead to pre-marital sex silly christians (no offence but they tend to be catholic schools, baptist schools, or presbyterian schools)
InsaneSith, you tend to over-generalize A LOT. Weren’t you one of the people criticizing CagedCrado for his generalizations of Native Americans? How are you any different?
ioshee is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 10:55 AM   #29
ZBomber
Octavarium
 
ZBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 10,916
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
those schools have to do more with religion. they think that co-ed or just men-women colleges lead to pre-marital sex silly christians (no offence but they tend to be catholic schools, baptist schools, or presbyterian schools)
i dn't blame them. Condoms don't always work man.


Last.FM - Ow, give up the funk
Let the truth of love be lighted
Let the love of truth shine clear
Sensibility
Armed with sense and liberty
With the heart and mind united
In a single perfect sphere
ZBomber is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 04:29 PM   #30
Thrackan Solo
 
Thrackan Solo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho, or does it exist?
Posts: 904
Quote:
no i dont think we should hire women just because of sexual equality but most women are hired over men because male bosses tend to use them as a sexual tool in the workplace.
I agree with you there but not all men hire women just to use them, my dad hires women, and hes happily married he doesnt fool around with them.


I bow before the spoon.
Thrackan Solo is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 06:30 PM   #31
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
I agree with you there but not all men hire women just to use them, my dad hires women, and hes happily married he doesnt fool around with them.
that why i say some. not all there is a difference between what i siad and the word all. and im very glad that your father is a gentlemen that doesnt hire women just as tools. and to you ioshee i didnt generalize i stated statistics.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 08:40 PM   #32
Thrackan Solo
 
Thrackan Solo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho, or does it exist?
Posts: 904
hey insane there is no some in your statement you said most women are hired over men for tools.


I bow before the spoon.
Thrackan Solo is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-11-2003, 09:36 PM   #33
El Sitherino
The Original.
 
El Sitherino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Planet Funkālnite.
Posts: 14,509
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran LF Jester 
well many in the same sense as some.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
El Sitherino is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-15-2003, 05:24 PM   #34
ShadowTemplar
Heathen
 
ShadowTemplar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,068
Quote:
Originally posted by ZBomber
i dn't blame them. Condoms don't always work man.
No. Only in 96% That leaves just a meagre 4% to have their pregnancy terminated.

Quote:
InsaneSith, you tend to over-generalize A LOT. Weren’t you one of the people criticizing CagedCrado for his generalizations of Native Americans? How are you any different?
He's got the statistics backing him.
ShadowTemplar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-26-2003, 04:43 PM   #35
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
I'm for equality too, but women have to give too.

For example the draft. Why exactly wouldn't women be drafted? Women
  • Have better balance,
  • Strategic thinking, and
  • Ability to endure hardships
than men, meaning they're just as likely candidates. Several navies that allow women to join features submarines and surface vessels commanded by women, on boats with majorities of men. Meaning that a woman can perfectly well outrank a bunch of men. Heck, some of the most dangerous Caribbean pirates were women! Oh, and have you ever played an RTS game against a girl?

Next, sexual abuse and the likes. You know a woman can get away with staring and sometimes even stalking a good deal easier than a guy.

Quote:
Should we hire women just because of sexual equality? what if she has less experience than a man? do you want your business to run less efficiently just because you want more equality in the work place?
No. What I want is that people look away from gender when they hire people. Let's say I have two candidates with almost identical resumes. Pick the one with the best resume, not the one with the cutest body.

Quote:
You could consider pregnancy as draft. I mean most women get 2-3 children. That is 12-18 months of trouble with your body. The first three months aren´t bad, or so I´ve been told. After that the mother has to breast-feed and so on. In the US army there are women everywhere except in the combat parts.
Er.. drafting means to join the armed forces for a period of time. The government does it to increase army strenght, not to torture you. You can't say "okay, I don't have to join the navy because I've already been in pain". Having a baby doesn't exactly bring a submarine anywhere.

IMO, the fact that girls aren't drafted is one of the most sexist problems in society. Think: How long would womens' right movements tolerate it if girls had to do something that guys didn't have to do?

Quote:
Funny, I was about to bring that up myself. I REALLY wish that the states of America could pass the Equal Rights Amendment, which would essentially alter the Constitution/Amendments to state "men and women" or "citizens" in all cases where it currently says, "men."
I agree, but "men and women" sounds to informal, and citizens could imply (I know you didn't mean it that way) that all non- US citizens living in the States are created differently (well, we are, but still). What about "humans"?

BTW, I believe "man" is an old way of saying "human", as in "mankind" instead of "humankind", so the constitution could meaning "humans", maybe? Anyone know?

Quote:
My ex-girlfriend goes to an all-women's college. THOSE I can't stand
Along with segregated gym classes, like at my school.

Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-27-2003, 01:27 AM   #36
munik
Banned
 
munik's Avatar
 
Status: Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 457
Anyone who thinks that women should be included in the draft have never had to serve with women. It may sound like such a great idea while you sit in your plush sofa, but you may think differently when you are the one that has to pick up their slack and carry their dead weight.

Putting women on submarines sounds like one of the most counter-productive ideas I've heard in a long time. Submarines have been equiped with nuclear engines and large food stores so they can remain at sea for months upon months upon months. Putting a woman on board would totally defeat this. The sub would have to be altered to accomodate seperate quarters, heads, etc. for women. Hardly a good idea. What good is it to have a submarine capable of being submerged for months if you have to constantly dock so you can switch out your pregnant crew members? I'm not a Navy man, but maybe there is one here you can tell you how long after a ship leaves dock before the female crew members get knocked up. I'm willing to wager it's the same length of time a pregnancy test says is the earliest it can detect pregnancy.
munik is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-27-2003, 12:21 PM   #37
XWING5
 
XWING5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: FORT BRAGG: AIRBORNE!!
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally posted by munik
Anyone who thinks that women should be included in the draft have never had to serve with women. It may sound like such a great idea while you sit in your plush sofa, but you may think differently when you are the one that has to pick up their slack and carry their dead weight.

Putting women on submarines sounds like one of the most counter-productive ideas I've heard in a long time. Submarines have been equiped with nuclear engines and large food stores so they can remain at sea for months upon months upon months. Putting a woman on board would totally defeat this. The sub would have to be altered to accomodate seperate quarters, heads, etc. for women. Hardly a good idea. What good is it to have a submarine capable of being submerged for months if you have to constantly dock so you can switch out your pregnant crew members? I'm not a Navy man, but maybe there is one here you can tell you how long after a ship leaves dock before the female crew members get knocked up. I'm willing to wager it's the same length of time a pregnancy test says is the earliest it can detect pregnancy.
Whoa, back up just a sec. That is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard. I am a female in the Army and I am here to tell you, that NO ONE picks up my dead weight. Now obviously, logistically, it would not be smart to draft a female to work on a sub, it would be comparable to drafting a female to the infantry. However, I know for a fact that the Navy has other jobs. You've seen the commercials advertising the 212 ways to be a soldier in the Army. Are you saying women can't work in Commanding roles for MI, MP, Quartermaster, Pilot, etc? There are so many support elements that could be filled, that need to be filled, and would be filled successfully by women. And you know, if the sailors can't stay away from the female on a sub, maybe they both need to be kicked off the sub and go to some profesionalism classes.
If women want equality, then they need to get it on all fronts. Not just the pick and choose cause the femi-nazis out there decide on. And that includes miltary service. There are many physical and physiological differences that will always have to be accounted for and there will never be total equality for any group (because no one is perfect), but it has been getting better, and it always will.


We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free - Ronald Reagan, Memorial Speech, Omaha Beach, 1984

Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying, who shall I send, and who shall go for us? Then I said, "Here am I, send me."- ISIAH 6:8

RED 5 Standing By.....
XWING5 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-27-2003, 12:22 PM   #38
C'jais
Spicy Viking Boy
 
C'jais's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Soviet Scandinavistan
Posts: 4,345
First of all, women do indeed serve a role in the army. While I don't think they can be placed in direct front-line ground forces, they are serving in support roles, aboard warships and as pilots - "Five-by-five, we're in the pipe". In fact, I've heard of a female F15 pilot. Pretty cool.

There are a number of problems with women in ground forces:

Soldiers are expected, and sometimes required to go for several weeks without proper bathing and hygeine. While men will stink like a pig, women have the additional problem of yeast infections.

Most men are raised to protect and take care of females first and foremost. If I were to see a wounded female in my squad and was required to proceed with the objectives at hand, I'd hesitate. I'd probably place a lot of attention on the woman to make sure she was okay. Granted, this attitude can change, but I don't see it doing it for a long time.

Then there's the problem with female POWs getting raped. Of course, things are being done to male POWs that are equally gruesome, but the public doesn't make that distinction.

Physical strengh. Men are stronger, for a reason. A male soldier can haul a wounded soldier out of the the line of fire, but I doubt most females would be capable of doing this. Really, while it may sound sexist, it is a problem in this case.

Eagle, I don't think females have better balance or strategic thinking. It's said that women are better at "multi-tasking", while men are better at concentrating. I don't know what to believe anymore.



EDIT: Oops! Saw the nudity hidden in that image. Link removed.

BTW, females are usually better pilots than men, and their short height makes for less strain when facing high G.

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a.../waterman.html


Better to be hated for who you are, than loved for who you're not.

Member of The Scandinavian Clique

My LiveJournal

Last edited by C'jais; 04-27-2003 at 12:59 PM.
C'jais is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-27-2003, 01:00 PM   #39
XWING5
 
XWING5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: FORT BRAGG: AIRBORNE!!
Posts: 94
I can't really argue with you too much there C'Jais. I don't think that men are ready to fight amongst women on the battlefield. Hell, in some cases they won't fight with other men (but that is a whole other thread.) But I gotta say, in all honesty (and I am not for women fighting infantry as the situation stands), I have seen women who could do the job, and plenty of men who I wouldn't want next to me in a foxhole. Everything is relative to the person. You know how firemen must pass a sort of physically strenuous entrance exam? Well, that could be done with the Infantry. If you measure up, male or female, you are in. However, for the reasons you mentioned, it is just not the time. I will never be allowed to join Special Forces. My daughter wouldn't be able to (and I wouldn't want her to), but maybe the grandkids. Equality has been a long time coming, but it is constantly changing. I am just thankful for what we are allowed to do as compared to when my mom was growing up.

PS I don't actually have a daughter, but hypothetically I still wouldn't want her on the front lines. Scares me to death that she might be out there, so I understand society as a whole not ready to send their wives or daughters out there.


We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free - Ronald Reagan, Memorial Speech, Omaha Beach, 1984

Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying, who shall I send, and who shall go for us? Then I said, "Here am I, send me."- ISIAH 6:8

RED 5 Standing By.....
XWING5 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 04-27-2003, 01:48 PM   #40
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Quote:
Eagle, I don't think females have better balance or strategic thinking.
Okay, but it would seem they do. They get into skiing a bit faster than guys, and they tend to fall less.

But I might be wrong.

Munik, did you watch JAG by any chance? You sound like you're quoting that guy opposing the female character joining that sub.. one of the only episodes I ever saw.

Hmm... you know, the Norwegian navy has women in our subs as far as I know, but we don't have any ICBM Missile Subs (thank my God) that are intended to stay down for months.

However, we do send submarines with girls on them on missions far from home (we sent a sub with a woman on it to Afghanistan, for example). How we do it, I don't know, but what I do know is it doesn't take much to "add separate quarters". Maybe all they do is add this temporary wall separating the male's beds from the females' beds.

My point is, it's perfectly possible. Why? It's being done. We also have women in infantry divisions, as far as I know.

The pregnancy argument is ridiculous. Just ban sex on submarines. If you get pregnant, you and your lover(s) are thrown headfirst out in the first port you get to, then shipped home. Zero tolerance.

Quote:
Girls are raped
Well, you sign up for war knowing you can get killed. Isn't that almost as bad, or worse (I'd rather get killed than abused)? And men are sexually abused too, aren't they?

Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Senate Chambers > Sexual Equality

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.