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Old 01-19-2003, 03:54 PM   #1
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Current Status

As MotF's Coder and Team Lead, I'm responsible for implimenting all our features. I'll try to post here to let everyone now what I'm currently working on. Also watch the rest of this forum for more up-to-the-minute information on MotF.


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Old 01-19-2003, 04:04 PM   #2
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1/19/2003

I'm currently finishing up the rewrite of the splash damage code. It's now much more realistic with ghoul2 hitdetection and fragmentation / concussion damage simulation. However, I've been have a lot of trouble getting it to work. My projectile math was a bit off. I think I have it now, but I haven't tired it.


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Old 01-21-2003, 10:36 AM   #3
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Ok, the core splash damage code is done after DAYS of working on the damn thing. ASk proved the key to getting it done. We're currently working on getting the weapons set up for the new system.


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Old 01-21-2003, 11:56 AM   #4
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/me comes to razorace
/me points "Hey do this"
<Razor_Ace> wtf? it worked



I still say that Razor_Ace is responsible for it being done.
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Old 01-22-2003, 05:20 AM   #5
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1/22/03

Razor Ace:

With the explosive hit detection core complete, I have turned over the job of filling in the explosive weapon data over to ASk. I'm now turning my attention to the dismemberment code. It needs to be updated with ghoul 2 hitzones, plus we're considering some additional uses for the system.

For example, with the more realistic explosive damage modeling, we're thinking about reimplimenting "gibbing" to reflect the fact that you're not going to survive a direct hit by a fragmentation rocket with a intact body (dead).

What we do will be restricted by what the system can do, so details will be reveiled as we progress.


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Old 01-22-2003, 05:25 AM   #6
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Animation News

Oh, I forgot to mention the big news of the day. Wudan has figured out a way to merge .gla files together! With this knowledge we can now do new animations for MotF!

Unfortunately, Ytmh doesn't have a copy of 3D studio Max, so new animations in MotF will have to wait until Ytmh has a copy. If anyone knows where we can get a copy cheap, please pm me.


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Old 01-30-2003, 03:56 AM   #7
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By new animations for motf, does that mean new animations for jk2 in general, as well?
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:23 AM   #8
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For anyone with a team that can do a LOT of GOOD animating and coding, yes.

I'm not directly related with the gla merger team so I obviously don't get credit for it. They're close, but there's still some additional hurdles that they have run into. So cross your fingers and hope that ASk, Wudan, etc get it working soon.

I, in the meanwhile, am playing with the saber code. I just finished rewriting the saber hit detection to make it work a bit better and to get ride of a bunch of useless crap. From my testing, it seems to me that the reason why the saber seems to miss a lot in running fights is because the current camera view makes the saber look like it reaches farther than it actually does. I'll look into what I can do about the camera view to fix the problem.


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Old 01-31-2003, 08:48 AM   #9
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Well, I spent today working on making a good 1st person view for the saber.

I got it currently set up so the player's view is hooked directly to eyes of the player model. This means you get to see everything the character would see including your feet, arms, all the animations where the saber passes thru your leg, etc.

It's working pretty good so far but I need to write a function to make it so you'll have some freedom of movement with your virtual eyeballs. And before you all write in and ask, your eye wouldn't move to look where you're looking. That would require a lot of coding and most models wouldn't support it anyway. I might do it later when I have a better understanding of the Ghoul2 commands.

A special skin will be required for this feature to work with other models. I'll probably set it up to use the kyle's model (for the 1st person view) if a custom skin isn't set up for the current model. Also, due to the way the fx effects are handled in the game, you'll not be able to see yourself in mirrors while in the new first person view.


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Old 01-31-2003, 12:35 PM   #10
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I hope this works better than the normal 1st person view, I hate seeing like I was looking through a camera... and it wouldn't work very well for saber combat, with all those jedi jumps & speed.
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Old 01-31-2003, 06:33 PM   #11
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oh it's better than the SP version. It's actually attached to the model now.

However, the big downside that I can see is that in real life, and in the game, you can't really see the saber/your hands when you're in the 1st POV.


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Old 01-31-2003, 10:16 PM   #12
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The big difference here is that in real life you don't need to see your saber to know where it is, since it's your hands that are holding it, and you don't need to see them to know where they are, plus you hve a wider FOV, in the PC (or a console for that matter) you have a square FOV, and you cant feel your "hands" so things need to be a little less realistic I think.
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Old 01-31-2003, 10:20 PM   #13
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Very true, but how do you suggest getting that sort of information to the player?


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Old 02-01-2003, 04:24 AM   #14
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2/1/03

Razor Ace: Still working on a smoother function for the 1st pvv. I've got the eye movement limiter in place. I'm now working on a way to translate the roll rotation of the model to the view angle. I'm pretty sure I can do it with some math (crappy math :P ) but it's bedtime for me now. I'll work on it more tomorrow.


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Old 02-01-2003, 06:43 AM   #15
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Well I only have one idea... and it's pretty lame if you ask me, but there it goes:

If you have played some space sims, you'll have seen some of them have a representation of your ship on the hub, which (at least on some) moves like you do (ok i have only seen this once :P), so putting some sort of simplified model there could soulve this, but i think it would look reeeeeeally crappy.
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Old 02-01-2003, 02:30 PM   #16
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We've been thinking about that sort of thing, but it would take a lot of coding for a single camera view.


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Old 02-03-2003, 05:48 AM   #17
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1/3/02

Well, I finally figured out a way to extract the orientation information and have it work correctly. It looks great now. Tomorrow, I'll resume work on the smoother function so you'll have some ability to "move" your eyes around a bit. Boy, I was probably stuck on that issue for the longest of anything I've done for the project so far.


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Old 02-03-2003, 11:06 AM   #18
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Can we see some screenies of it? (Or realease 2 )

Woops, now they are rolling :P (I'm just impatient I understand it's not easy... seeing the probelms I have with crappy nwn scripts)

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Old 02-03-2003, 06:34 PM   #19
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Why are you rolling your eyes at me? These things take time. We're in the middle of intergrating several major code changes and we need to get them RIGHT first.

I'll try to post some screenies soon.


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Old 02-04-2003, 05:39 AM   #20
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Screenshots

Still toying with the camera stuff. It's not very playable with full attachment (to the eyes) thou. The view moves so quickly in the flips and spins that it's hard on the eyes. Plus, the left/right leaning for straffing is simple insane. I'll keep playing with it but the system is probably going to have an attachment setting to let people use it without the whirl-and-puke that full attachment brings.

Anyway, here are some screenshots of the current system.....

Woah, I have a leg AND a foot!

I like to call this piece, "Sparks, Two Legs, and the Sky".

Coming out of a roll in this shot.

Kyle takes a shot nap.

Look ma! No..err..anything. (This is the view in the middle of a backflip.)

Lando getting a charge out of live...for the last 5 seconds of it.

Lando does the electric boogy.

Ok, that's enough bad jokes for now. Sides, I'm out of screenies.

Later!


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Old 02-04-2003, 08:39 AM   #21
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Just a question, does this use the "improved" kyle model from 1st person lightsaber or is it the one from the skin? Since if it's the one from the skin i guess it should be possible to make it use the same model you are using.
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Old 02-04-2003, 05:54 PM   #22
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The "improved" model is SP is just another skin. Open up the skins for Kyle marked with "fpls" and "fpls2". You'll see what I mean.


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Old 02-05-2003, 02:01 AM   #23
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wow, that looks really cool

when you do back attacks, does the view look around? i assume so, since you said the camera view is attached to the eyes

will the camera be in the next release? this mod actually allows me to tolerate this game in multiplayer
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Old 02-05-2003, 02:07 AM   #24
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Yeah, the camera should look back when you backstab.

Thxs for the high appraise.

Yes, the camera will be in Release 2.


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Old 02-05-2003, 07:44 AM   #25
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So you are using the one which hasn't got half of the skin marked as clear? Is there any way to make it use your normal model if you aren't using kyle's (It will be uglier i suppose but id preffer that rather than seeing kyle)
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:48 PM   #26
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The head has to be set to "clear" to prevent you from seeing the insides of it. It's not hard to do for any model.


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Old 02-05-2003, 04:23 PM   #27
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So for this to work for any skin you'd need to a headless version? Just tell the name of the skin file and I'll add it to my skin :P

BTW these screenshots look really good, I can't wait to see this working in game.
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Old 02-05-2003, 09:52 PM   #28
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Yes, you'll have to make an additional skin with the name "skinname_fpls" (no head with body) or "skinname_fpls2" (arms and saber only) for every skin you want to use in True View.

I'm not sure yet but I may only make support for _fpls because there's no real point for removing the body when that's part of the appeal of doing True View. AND it would just add to the workload for skinners/modellers.


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Old 02-05-2003, 10:24 PM   #29
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Since the animation thread hasn't been updated in the general editing forum, I was wondering if you guys at MOTF are going to use custom animations? I remember Tercero talking about some mod he made that made the lightsaber combat truthful to the movies. I'd appreciate a response, i've been very curious lately. Thank you




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Old 02-05-2003, 11:48 PM   #30
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When new animations are possible, MotF will be adding some to the mod. HOWEVER, the people working on getting new animations to work have hit a wall. Until the technical hurdles are passed, don't expect new animations anytime soon.

I don't know who Tercero is. Who is he and where did he mention this? If he's truely interested in making the game more like the movies, I'm sure MotF could work out some sort of merger deal. ( Assuming that he's the real deal. I'm sick of people who sign up and disappear the next day. :P )


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Old 02-08-2003, 04:31 AM   #31
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2/8/03

Not much today. Just farther implimenting True View.


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Old 02-08-2003, 01:30 PM   #32
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hi i had a few more thoughts about this project

there was a mention about having dodging, with non-jedi characters and such, and how all "classes" as it were, would dodge, because there would be balance issues otherwise

anyway, i was thinking, maybe have it so jedi classes would use less dodge points (or non-jedis use more) whenever dodge is used, but have it so jedis do not use armor/shields, only non-jedis have shields/armor


another thing i noticed, this should be an easy fix, and although it wont really make it "more true to the movies," is how when you backpedal you run as fast as a forward run. i remember being annoyed by this in the multiplayer game, chasing after some bot looking back at you going backwards just as fast as you chasing them.

like i said, although this isnt an issue as far as the movies go, i think it is unrealistic, and would be better off changed to reflect it. maybe, when fatigue points are enabled, make backpedalling take alot more points than forward running. cuz really, can you run backwards fast without alot of effort?


also, i was wondering, although this mod makes the technical things about the game much better; the guns actually shoot like blasters, not slow ass gob cannons; the dodging is really cool. but it is still boring to just play FFA, duel, and the MP basic games over and over (especially with bots, cuz online servers arent there or hard to find)

i havent really been in the loop lately, and never with the MP side of JO, but i did hear about a gametype called saga, and i guess its a more objective-based gametype, and its already in game, but not enabled (last i checked)... perhaps, if you arent making your own new gametype, you can have the saga gametype enabled in MotF?

last comment, im admittedly ignorant on.
just a few suggestion-guestions.

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Old 02-08-2003, 02:07 PM   #33
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In my opinion, another good idea maybe to make lightsabres 'circuit out' underwater, or when the blade comes in contact with water.
This page is useful in background information.

I think fighting with lightsabres underwater is too unrealistic. This may also be the case for blaster shots; they could burn-up after a meter or so in water, meaning they're unable to get the upper hand over Jedi wielding sabres.

I have a feeling most people won't like this idea. I haven't read about any breakthroughs in Lightsabre technology allowing them to duel with lightsabres underwater.

A good example of this is in Aliens Versus Predator 2. The Predator's cloaking device would circuit out in water, making the game more realistic and tactical.

The other alternative is allowed more ability to fight underwater. Maybe even some code can be added, to allow specific models to not drown. Mon Calamari can hold their breath underwater longer than any human. This will probably be abused by everyone putting their models in as immune to death underwater, making it a bad idea in the long term.

Hope my aquatic ideas help.
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Old 02-08-2003, 05:41 PM   #34
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Originally posted by idontlikegeorge
anyway, i was thinking, maybe have it so jedi classes would use less dodge points (or non-jedis use more) whenever dodge is used, but have it so jedis do not use armor/shields, only non-jedis have shields/armor
Well, I don't really like class based systems. They're too confining to the customization factor of your player.

Anyway, I'm currently thinking of ideas on how to redo the current Dodge implimentation. I'm hoping to make it be based directly on the distance you have to move to dodge the attack instead of how much damage that attack does. This would more realistic and would give an insentive to actually manually move to dodge attacks instead of just charging. This would go hand-in-hand with the new concept for how dodge is visually handled, but I'll skip the technical details for now.

As for how how Dodge is balanced out for the different general types of players, I think the best strategy is to give more Dodge points to Jedi and give armor/health bonuses to the non-jedi. My concern with changing the Dodge cost based on who you is that would be confusing to the players. If the Dodge cost changes dramatically you can't be sure how long your Dodge will last for a given player.
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like i said, although this isnt an issue as far as the movies go, i think it is unrealistic, and would be better off changed to reflect it. maybe, when fatigue points are enabled, make backpedalling take alot more points than forward running. cuz really, can you run backwards fast without alot of effort?
Seems reasonable. I haven't put any time into changing the movement code much, but I'll keep that in mind when I do.
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i havent really been in the loop lately, and never with the MP side of JO, but i did hear about a gametype called saga, and i guess its a more objective-based gametype, and its already in game, but not enabled (last i checked)... perhaps, if you arent making your own new gametype, you can have the saga gametype enabled in MotF?
That's a good point. I had been planning to do some Saga Coding with Artifex but...

1. Artifex is bailing out of the "scene" for medical reasons.
2. Community support for Saga has been little to nil. Everyone talks about it like it's going to "save" the JK2 community but then noone makes Saga maps or plays the few that have been made.
3. Team based objective gameplay modes have been done to death in other games. While it is cool and all, we'd have to come up with something truely special to make it something other than just TFC/CS with lightsabers. The problem is that there's not much more you can do THAN make TFC/CS-with-lightsabers without coming up with something that I haven't thought of yet.
4. Coding Time is Coding Time. I could either spend my time improving the basic gameplay or spend it making a good Saga type of gameplay mode.
5. Everyone else and their dog is already doing this for JK2. I know the mod team AKA the AotC TC team is doing this sort of thing for our mod and there's at least 2 other teams working on the same thing. I don't think MotF could do it uniquely enough to justify being a seperate mod.
6. And most importantly, I don't think it related to the mission of MotF. Most of the notable combat in the movies is about individuals in combat not large teams of people duking it out. I think people would far prefer a more realistic rendition of the Vader vs. Luke battles than the Death Star blaster shoot outs (especially if 70% of the players have to be Stormtroopers that are basically banthfodder for the 3 main players)

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.


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Old 02-08-2003, 05:47 PM   #35
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Originally posted by Hkx Nx
In my opinion, another good idea maybe to make lightsabres 'circuit out' underwater, or when the blade comes in contact with water.
That's a good idea, but I haven't even seen a map with swimmable water yet. I think the code already makes your saber turn off in the water as is.


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Old 02-10-2003, 03:45 AM   #36
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NNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Not the best of days for MotF. For some reason Ytmh's computer crashes on the lastest compile. I'm going to have to go back to the latest back up R2 B5 and work out what is wrong. So until I fix the problem, progress on MotF will be restricted by the amount of time I can spend with Ytmh to figure the problem. SUCK!


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Old 02-10-2003, 07:25 AM   #37
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That's a good idea, but I haven't even seen a map with swimmable water yet. I think the code already makes your saber turn off in the water as is.
Well I've seen at least one, which was a conversion from a jk1 map, and you can have your saber on underwater without a problem (apart from loosing some moves).
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Old 02-10-2003, 02:26 PM   #38
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All the maps with water allow underwater sabre fights in JK2.
I haven't come across any 'saber-off' triggers from contact with water.
Here's some links to maps you can see for yourself:

County Roads
Country Roads 2
Canyon Oasis 2
Dantooine: Free For All

..and many more..
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Old 02-10-2003, 05:13 PM   #39
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Oh, well, I'll look into it eventually. Obviously, until we have some way to get a new saber, I can't have the saber "short out". The easier solution would be to make the saber turn off underwater.


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Old 02-17-2003, 08:51 AM   #40
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You could have the sabre turn off and have some spark effect originally in the game?

How's the mod progressing at the moment? No news for a while.
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