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Old 04-14-2003, 03:36 AM   #41
NerfYoda
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ronin_Medjai
I think the main problem with JA and VA is what some call its best feature and thats server-side. I like the idea of if you dont like a cetain mod just dont DL it and you cant play on that type of server without the mod this keeps people seperated into their categories that they need to be. VA and JA are just base JKO with emotes and Admin Commands which JKO doesnt Need. Its a Game not a place to have discussions if you dont want to shoot something or kill,but this mod allows people to 'torture' people who dont play by THIER rules and I follow the Basic Rules if its an RPG Server I RP if its CTF I capture the Flag if its a Free for All Gametype that means Anything Goes! If you want to Duel go play Duelers Mod or something JA and VA are ruining base JKO which quite frankly a lot of people like. Now what we should do instead of posting IPS of Bad Servers is post IPs of good ones with peeps who dont abuse admin and stuff that way the ones who like to play can do so without being lamed by some n00b who sux and has to use admin to win. Anyone with me on this?
That is a CAPITAL idea . Puts the situation in a positive light. I dig that. I don't mean to advertise, but the Academy runs JA Mod servers (go figure ) quite responsibly. Our server addresses are only given to members though.


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Old 04-14-2003, 11:05 AM   #42
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One more:

Apparently (oh god what a crime) I did not bow nor did I say Good fight (or the analog of it in form of auto-bind with spammy colors and ascii art). Of course. The solution? Put me to sleep, silence me and repeatedly kill me. To "teach me manners".

This community is going to hell. JAM and VA are the things that bring it down.




Of course killing a person that can't defend himself is easy. In real duels they fail, to cheating they resort.

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Old 04-14-2003, 11:29 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by ASk
One more:

Apparently (oh god what a crime) I did not bow nor did I say Good fight (or the analog of it in form of auto-bind with spammy colors and ascii art). Of course. The solution? Put me to sleep, silence me and repeatedly kill me. To "teach me manners".

This community is going to hell. JAM and VA are the things that bring it down.




Of course killing a person that can't defend himself is easy. In real duels they fail, to cheating they resort.
I am so glad i stick to CtF, as the fan boys are sooo Gay. bow GF and ****... **** off and play the game. the idea of puting the bad servers up is ****... would be a lot easyer to put the good ones up.. should not be a long list.

I say Kill all Fan Boys... but only with there sabers down.. and you get 10 points if you do it when they are bowing.

pls post Screen shots of you doing this ahahahahahahaha

if you want to look like a prat play on a dule, leave FFA games to play FFA... they make these mods as them players are so gay and crap they cant beat you at your own game.


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Old 04-14-2003, 12:05 PM   #44
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Just watched the demo LMFAO hehehe what a bunch of Fan Boys

lol they are the players that would if they could have a /am of /am blowjob so they could be one with there fellow Fan Boys.

and what did i see at the start, rules: Defeat your enemies to score points!

LMFAO well we could add -=[ERG]=- servers to the list of bad servers


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Old 04-14-2003, 03:11 PM   #45
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you deserved that DFA. When you play on someone else's server you're subject to their rules. If you don't like it, well, no one is forcing you to play on that particular server. Now if that admin didnt explain the rules before the duel or just DFA'd you out of the blue I do have a problem with that...

I think you guys are forgetting that this is a Star Wars game. A Star Wars game is going to attract different fans than Quake 3 or CS. These folks are going to appreciate the whole "Jedi" aspect to the game, and will run their servers accordingly. It's not "gay" or whatever. It's just not your typical fragfest FPS server. Again if you don't like it don't play it.


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Old 04-14-2003, 07:10 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by ASk
One more:

Apparently (oh god what a crime) I did not bow nor did I say Good fight (or the analog of it in form of auto-bind with spammy colors and ascii art). Of course. The solution? Put me to sleep, silence me and repeatedly kill me. To "teach me manners".

This community is going to hell. JAM and VA are the things that bring it down.




Of course killing a person that can't defend himself is easy. In real duels they fail, to cheating they resort.
GJKC is one of the most pathetic clans in JKII, period. Our boys from IDS opened a can on their ass, and they cried until an admin sleeped them because they were getting their asses handed to them.

It's clans like these that make me sick.
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Old 04-14-2003, 08:44 PM   #47
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This thread has gone down the crapper...
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Old 04-15-2003, 12:31 AM   #48
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Not really, people are just venting their frustrations at the situation.

1-Take a noob/***hole admin or clan.

2-Give them a mod to humiliate players with impunity.

3-Drive players away from the game because they are tired of being ****ed with every time they set foot on almost any server running one of these mods.

4-The average players option of "going to another server" are limited because the majority of people playing JK2 now are annoying fanboy noobs who get off on ridiculing people and hence, run these mods. The players only other option is to hit the competitive clan servers and get torn up by people out of his league and hence get even more frustrated.

The good old days of being able to just hit a public JK2 FFA server and play some Jedi Outcast are long gone and I put a very large part of that blame on the shoulders of these mods.
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Old 04-15-2003, 02:07 AM   #49
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You know shock~unnamed I think its people that go around calling every jerk and prick admin out there an annoying fanboy noob are the ones that ruin the gaming community. Whining and complaining doesn't solve very many problems. If it weren't for the fanboys you complain about this game probably wouldn't even exist. You complain about the mods, but its not the mods that cause the problems. Its the admins that use them. ZeroCool or any of the other mod creators can't go around to every server using there mod and go "Oh I'm sorry you're misusing my mod, you can't have it." You make it sound like the game is 20 years old when you say the good old days.

I really don't think that these mods have caused any difference in the game. Before you had a jerk in the game and if the server host was around or you could miraculously get enough votes you could kick out the ass and when the host of the server was the ass, you simply left or played untill they decided to kick you. With these admin mods now, the server host doesn't have to be on or you don't need to acquire the 66% of the people to vote yes to kick someone off. A person with admin powers can do it. Or they can slap the person or put them to sleep for a moment and let them know they are misbehaving, and should try to behave. Not just a kick and having them constantly rejoin and causing more problems. Same thing with a crappy Admin, play by their rules, leave or be kicked by them. The only change is that now its not just the host that can be a prick but the admins overall that can be one. Whether the mod is there or not really isn't going to have an effect on these people. If you can blow it off and not let them get to you then you are the better person. There are many things in this world that people abuse: Driving, drugs, guns are some. Just because a few abuse them does that mean that no one should be able to drive or have a beer every now and then or go out hunting just because of one or two pricks?
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Old 04-15-2003, 02:26 AM   #50
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\rcon addip

\rcon kick


That bans a user in any Quake 3 engine game.

Explain to me again why there is need for anything more than that?

Oh yeah of course.

"We have to punish teh lamerz cuz dey have no honorz like us real Jedi".

Please guy save the sermon for the /amspin crowd.

But hey what do I know, I mean by that logic why blame OGC for their Counter-Strike bots.

They just make it; it's the players who abuse it right?

And please don't any of you go there with the "whining never solves any problems speech".

I constantly was trying to teach the whiny noobs of 1.03 that they need not whine for patches while damn near all of the people on these forums were making "OMFG TEH BACK STAB IS GAY" threads every other post.

Last edited by shock ~ unnamed; 04-15-2003 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:02 AM   #51
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You need access to rcon to use that. What do you do if a bunch of lamers join your server and raise hell and you can't stop them?Let them have their way and hopefully they'll be done when the admin gets home fron vacation in a week? This is why the subadmin commands were created. So in case an admin is out of town a trusted few can still run the server.

If the server you're on is run by "fanboys" then respect it. It's their server, not yours. They have just as much right to kick/slap you on their servers as you have to camp/frag/kick them on your servers.

Heheh I dont think I've ever seen so much whining as I did when the JK2 1.03 and 1.04 patches came out. For the most part I don't think whining solves any problems. If the "fanboy" aspects were removed from the game what would the starwars fans do? Whine about it. If more emotes and whatnot are added to the game what are the fraggers going to do? Yup, whine about it. I think these patches and the mods that have come out since then prove the point that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

This is a big Internet though, and being a clan member you must have access to leagues and other folk who apreciate a good fight without having to deal with the whole Jedi lore thing. Why can't both camps do their thing and have fun at it?


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Old 04-15-2003, 03:25 AM   #52
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shocks got a point with the whole OGC thing in CS. This mod is never used for what its made for which is you peeps in Jedi Academy I dont think you should have released the mod nor VA theres foir that matter if you want a subadmin thing do that but only with the kick and ban commands. I play JKO a lot and a lot of times Ill go to a Server and they have JA Mod or VA Mod running,and yeah they are supposed to be mature admins,but the fact is hardly any of them are. Just last night I played on a server called Neutral GRounds which is hosted by the SA Clan and the only admin there was a good Gunner/force user and I enjoyed sparring with him,but he used a few of your Mods Exploits and it was quite lame. The Whole emote thing is really lame if you add that to your next release make it so you can still kill someone who is using an emote almost all the time they camp in the middle of bridge on Deathstar map using /amsit and when you come by the ggrip you and you cant do jack. Apparently you are immune to force when in emote form and even regular sabere,but not saber throw and explosives.

Most of the time you join one of these server-side mod servers and if you kill the admin or any of his friends they break their own rules in the MOTD and silence you when you question it.then comes the invisible choke,sleeping,and exploding. After that I usually try to flood their server to crash it cause they are being Gay I have keys bound to namechanges IE
bind d name CM_Ronin
bind s name CM_Ronin
and I rapidly press S to D to make their server lag then I actually see the /amkick option being used! OMGosh!

Seriously most people use your mod cause they suck. They put these rules up that EVERYONE Else BUT Them has to follow so they can feel godlike. If you do make a future version dont make it server-side for the love of god! or take out the lame Admin cxommands /amkick and /amban are plenty


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Old 04-15-2003, 04:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Or they can slap the person or put them to sleep for a moment and let them know they are misbehaving, and should try to behave
You forgot:

- Bunny them because "they are lamers" (e.g. did not bow OR used force powers other than Jump
- Slap them repeatedly "just for the fun"
- Put them to sleep for 30 minutes and dance around shouting "lamer"
- Change nicks (and yes, in that game I had my nick forcefully changed to Lamer)
- EMPower themselves before fighting, because an admin does not need to be fair.
- Execute emotes all day long, because REAL Jedi's loved to execute broken animations that are not used in MP or SP </sarcasm>
- Enforce rules such as "no chatkill" because REAL Jedi's always said to their opponent: "wait a second, let me call this Jawa a lamer (no offense to all the Jawa's around here), then we can continue executing the broken animations"
- Enforce rules such as "saber off = no kill!!!!1111" because REAL Jedi's always walk with saber off, knowing that nobody will attack them
- Enforce rules such as "Bow before duel and say Good fight after duel", because REAL Jedi's always bow even if the opponent charges them and of course they always spam Good fight in silly colors and ascii art after each duel


(Note: REAL Jedi's (tm) refers to the Jedi's as shown in the movies. All resemlance to real-life characters is void)

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Old 04-15-2003, 05:15 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
This thread has gone down the crapper...
Yep.. and I can see both sides of the coin, the trouble is one side is very tainted, the mod is a great idea if used correct and I agree on that, but the truth is all these people that have control over the mod, get power crazed, and one of the following happens (exclude severs that tell you the rules at the start as if your going against that its your fault) 1. your winning and owning, and the mod controller gets upset, time to abuse my power... 2. I am a twat and going to pick on every body anyhow.. cus I can.

your not going to notice the servers that use this correct as you will be enjoying playing... any one been on a ffa lately that they enjoyed playing just ffa no duel **** or bowing and such?


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Old 04-15-2003, 05:23 AM   #55
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Angry

Why can't you just let the JAmod alone? It was made for the Academy not for some lamer admins out there! You can't possibly ask for him to run around and ask every admin using it out there to behave. Personally I can't see why especially ASk's last comment should ever be made. Are YOU so great when bashing a mod that was intended for the JA servers? Or for that sake when bashing a serverside mod made out of the feeling that there needed to be more options on a server? Lay off them man!


I can't wait til seeing your mods.


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Old 04-15-2003, 05:30 AM   #56
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SALUTES!!!!!

O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?


On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: ďIn God is our trust!Ē
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


~cHoSeN oNe
Mod Developer
The Jedi Academy
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Old 04-15-2003, 07:05 AM   #57
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Honestly the concept is a great one.

Have a mod that allows admins without handing over rcon.

MOTD is a great feature as well.


Emotes I could care less about but if people dig that stuff so be it.

Now all that said, here are a few *constructive suggestions to eliminate the abuse of the mod by admins:


1-The removal of "humiliation" features. Silence is actually a good idea but "bunny" and sleep/slap/choke have no purpose other than to humiliate. If humiliating and degrading players "helps the community" then that's a pretty ****ed up outlook on the community.

The /kickban feature combined with silence will solve any and all "lamer/breaking the rules" problems.

Got a guy foul mouthing other players, silence?
Got a guy not following the rules?
/kickban and you never have to deal with him again.


2-Make empowerment just like "the destroyer" command in base jk2. If the admin enables it then ALL clients have the ability to use it. If the admin does not enable it, it can't be used.

You say it needs to remain for training purposes.
Making this simple change in no way effects that and it eliminates the ability of admins to cheat in games and screw with and humiliate players just for a petty ego trip.

Now as far as the emotes go, I know there is little that can be done because of the way the code had to be implemented so there is really no way to stop people from "sitting" in the middle of a CTF game to avoid a kill.
Granted this is annoying but I really look at it no differently than people using map bugs in base jk2, it sucks but it's not that big of a deal.


Two simple fixes will virtually eliminate the abuse of your mod:

Removal of humiliation features and making empowerment available to all clients if enabled.

And if anyone disagrees with these suggestions, I am very curious as to your reasons as to why you feel humiliating players serves to keep ďlamersĒ off your server yet a simple /kickban that well, bans them, does not.
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Old 04-15-2003, 08:07 AM   #58
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When I see a serevr with guys walking around, not fighting, doing emotes, I leave. Now I dunno about you guys, but I just use MP "Join Server" from the "start" in JO. When it says "Game" at the top, i always say "Jedi Outcast". Hence, no JA mods, no fanboys=good games.
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Old 04-15-2003, 10:16 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by boinga1
When I see a serevr with guys walking around, not fighting, doing emotes, I leave. Now I dunno about you guys, but I just use MP "Join Server" from the "start" in JO. When it says "Game" at the top, i always say "Jedi Outcast". Hence, no JA mods, no fanboys=good games.
A men to that


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Old 04-15-2003, 10:27 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by ASk
You forgot:

- Bunny them because "they are lamers" (e.g. did not bow OR used force powers other than Jump
- Slap them repeatedly "just for the fun"
- Put them to sleep for 30 minutes and dance around shouting "lamer"
- Change nicks (and yes, in that game I had my nick forcefully changed to Lamer)
- EMPower themselves before fighting, because an admin does not need to be fair.
- Execute emotes all day long, because REAL Jedi's loved to execute broken animations that are not used in MP or SP </sarcasm>
- Enforce rules such as "no chatkill" because REAL Jedi's always said to their opponent: "wait a second, let me call this Jawa a lamer (no offense to all the Jawa's around here), then we can continue executing the broken animations"
- Enforce rules such as "saber off = no kill!!!!1111" because REAL Jedi's always walk with saber off, knowing that nobody will attack them
- Enforce rules such as "Bow before duel and say Good fight after duel", because REAL Jedi's always bow even if the opponent charges them and of course they always spam Good fight in silly colors and ascii art after each duel

Yeah see my example that you decided to look at was what a RESPONSIBLE admin should do. What you are pointing out would fall under my example of the crappy admins that you should leave because of how they act. I don't know what your big complaint is about bowing or nodding your head before a duel is. It takes really all of 2 seconds. I personally don't like it, but rather than complain about it I do it and it doesn't really ruin my gaming experience. Niether does going good fight at the end. I don't like it when people bitch about not bowing or saying gf after a duel either. But guess what, that's not a problem with the mod. Even without the mod's you'd still have people complaining about what you do or don't do.

As for the supposed "humiliation" features. I usually see that as a joke on a person. "There's the Wabbit, Get him!" The Slap Sleep Punish Features when used properly these aren't so much humiliation actions. Notice how I said used PROPERLY. What ASK pointed out about sleeping for 30 minutes is what I would call improper. And why in the hell are you staying on a server for 30 minutes like that. I'd leave and never come back after 2 minutes. I consider proper use being that you have a guy misbehaving you slap him and tell him he's causing problems and he should shape up. If he continues put him to sleep. He can still talk and you can talk to him about what he's doing without him running around causing problems and possibly reading what you are telling him. Punish you use when he doesn't want to shut up with his language. These are examples of Proper use so don't go trying to give more examples of the abuse of the commands. With doing this you might actually get through to the guy about what he's doing that would in other servers just result in a kick. He's got an explanation. Not just a disconnected server message. So perhaps he'll become less of a prick and turn into an asset to the community as well. Maybe he'll decide that attempting to lag and crash someone's server makes him no better than the people he's pissed off at and probably makes him a little worse.
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Old 04-15-2003, 11:54 AM   #61
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So I take it putting a person to sleep and having 4 people stand over him saying "you stupid lamer noob we own you" is a better way to produce more responsible players than something like:

Admin: "Padawan chill out guy we have X rules here, follow them or be kicked/banned"

Padawan: "**** YOU"

Padawan was kicked.

/reconnect

Banned.


The thing is man those humiliation/punishment features are never used properly as you claim they are.

I just left the Jedi Order (the people who made the Jedi Council map) server 10 minutes ago and here is what I experienced.

I go in and am just standing there watching two guys fight.
One of their members comes up to me and kicks me in the back of the head.
I turn around and two PTK's later he's dead.

/amslapped

"Umm hello why am I being slapped?"

"I had my saber down"

"Uhh yeah but you kicked me"

"Does not matter my saber was down"


And this is the uber "saber honor bow and blah blah" clan in JK2, and here they are acting no different than the "lamers" they claim to hate.

After beating several of their members is NF duels they got even more pissed and the slaps would come at random.

All simply because they thought they had a noob to abuse and were wrong and I mad them look bad.

People always make fun of "1337" gamers because they say their only goal is to "own" people.

This mod enables people to do just that.
These admins don't want to "rid their servers of lamers".
If they did a simple /kickban would do it.

They want to punish people and "own" them.
They can't do it by playing so they use the mod.
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Old 04-15-2003, 12:57 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Good post Shock

Ok pls don't use well if you don't like it leave or the I like to see you make a mod

Leave why are these servers on line as public if that's how people are treated!! hopefully they do it so bad that no one will go back to that server.. but its still annoying trying to find a good server with so much chaff about.

and what excuse is well I like to see you make a Mod.. why make mods.. ohh yeaa so you can punish the lamer... but what's your definition of a lamer
1. some one that comes in and don't play by the rules.. fair play on that one
2. some one that complains all the time... fair play on that to
3. **** this guys good and making me look bad.. not so fair play anymore.

most players don't mind sticking to the rules, if the rules are explained on start up.

how many ffa games you gone in and started killing only to get kicked... well I lost count, and there was no rules on start up to.


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Old 04-15-2003, 03:10 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by boinga1
When I see a serevr with guys walking around, not fighting, doing emotes, I leave. Now I dunno about you guys, but I just use MP "Join Server" from the "start" in JO. When it says "Game" at the top, i always say "Jedi Outcast". Hence, no JA mods, no fanboys=good games.
Use it. Love it.

The only problem is that this greatly limits the number of servers available to you. It is a sad fact that very few people run base JO anymore. For me, is seems like 4 out of 5 servers are running some sort of mod, so it takes a while to find one where people are actually playing JO. It's just frustrating
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:13 PM   #64
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(originally posted by Exar Kun Rules)
I can't wait til seeing your mods.
Mmm, let's see:

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GLAMerge, give skeleton, get new anims.
general help.

See, you should better research the subject. Refer to razorace's post on page 1. I do know what I am talking about. And you, you should be damn ashamed.

Feel free to ask anybody of the core modders. razor_ace, Anakin, wudan, Tchouky, Jaii, Darth_Sugar and anybody whom I forgot to mention.
From the code's point of view, JA is nothing more than a petty addition. While looking potentially good, it does not require any special code changes to write.

So please. Research the subject before you make the comment. And feel free to wait for "my mods", there will never be any. Not public at least.

[edit]
And about basejk2 limiting? My problem is that 99% of the servers I get good pings to, i.e. UK / Germany / rest of Europe run JAM/VAM

So it's either pings of 400-500, which is bad. Or the JAM/VAM servers
Just yesterday I made a test and only listed basejk2 servers. 3 servers that I pinged ok (under 250) to. 2 were locked, one was empty. So no, your solution does not work so well.
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:36 PM   #65
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I'll back this up. This group has done some great stuff. And to quote Exar Kun Rules without the sarcasm, "I can't wait til seeing your mods."

Quote:
Posted by Exar Kun Rules
Why can't you just let the JAmod alone? It was made for the Academy not for some lamer admins out there! You can't possibly ask for him to run around and ask every admin using it out there to behave. Personally I can't see why especially ASk's last comment should ever be made. Are YOU so great when bashing a mod that was intended for the JA servers?
I would have been tickled pink if the JA mod was used only by the Jedi Academy. I'm sure they put it to good use. But unfortunately, it was released to the public, meaning it was intended for more than just the JA servers. As a result, many a childish admin saw it and put it on their servers for reasons other than it was intended. This isn't the fault of the developer or his intention, but unfortunately the results are the same.
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Old 04-16-2003, 05:31 AM   #66
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Prime-> I agree with you. I just don't want people bashing the mod itself since it actually CAN run good with proper admins. And all that empower and the likes are quite good, if used properly.

Believe me, I don't want crappy admins to get their hands on the mods. I remember how annoying the mod can be if abused by the admins/people.


All I'm saying is don't attack the MODS, it's the people using it who are responsible.



[BTW]
I'll like to withdraw that sarcastic comment, just angry at the time that people was bashing to all sides.


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Old 04-16-2003, 08:11 AM   #67
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Originally posted by Exar Kun Rules
Prime-> I agree with you. I just don't want people bashing the mod itself since it actually CAN run good with proper admins. And all that empower and the likes are quite good, if used properly.

Believe me, I don't want crappy admins to get their hands on the mods. I remember how annoying the mod can be if abused by the admins/people.


All I'm saying is don't attack the MODS, it's the people using it who are responsible.



[BTW]
I'll like to withdraw that sarcastic comment, just angry at the time that people was bashing to all sides.
Well I think all parties involved are angry and at the end of the day nothing can be done about the abused power on some servers apart from maybe updates on the forum to say stay away from that server. I can see why the mod was released to all, as I play CTF and it gets a bit lame when someone from the other team cant take losing and then joins the other side, and uses rockets and such to blow his team of the side of ramps to there deaths.. in these cases the mod would be great, punish then kick/ban! I was playing against TOOSEXY in a public CtF game last night, man he can cap flags and fast. but would I lame if I had the power, No Way ... the best way to get better is to learn from these players I have a lot of respect for players like Grim Nuti Lando TOOSEXY Loki and a lot more names that I play against there are a few names that when I was first playing against them, they was not to good, but they have raised there game 10 fold and play some great games now. trouble is a lot of player out there only see respect from silly emotes or bows and such. I see it more in what they can achieve in kills caps and team play.


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Old 04-16-2003, 10:45 AM   #68
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First off I just want to say that I have talked over with the JA coder & I think the guy means well, but I have to agree with alot of what some of the people are saying in this thread.

Chosen One (JA coder): You told me that you can't make that client side cvar that only allows empower to take effect when its ok with the clients because then it wouldn't be a server-side only mod. Well I think I have found your happy medium. You need to make ANY command that gives someone more ammo or whatever happen to ALL players, not just admins. If everyone has it, then it is not cheating. If only admins or whatever only have it, it is cheating any way you look at it.

Right now I'm struggling with a mod that shouldn't be. I work on this thing like it's my job & it has some very serious potential to bring some life back into this game, but the majority of people are just to lazy to really check it out. Some of this quote pertains to this forum, which is why I am posting it here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Marker0077 on the JK2Files.com Duelers Forums
I don't mean to be rude, but we have not only given the community more admin commands, we've also given them a variety of ways of going about using them. Does anyone say "hey I like that feature in Duelers"? hell no, you know why? Because no one is playing it. They are giving feedback on something they haven't read about & are not using themselves; Instead, they go online & play some server-side only mod & come back & say "hey add this". The majority of the first posts were "already there" replies. The only thing we do not put in Duelers is commands like empower or other cheat commands because ITS A CHEAT. We may add a terminator like cvar, but it will be for all players, not for just admins or whatever, we do not endorse nor support THAT kind of gameplay.
Like a variety of people say in that empower hate thread, commands like empower are just ways to cheat in-game. Alot of people like to say "it's okay when you do it to a lamer" (as if you're not a lamer by cheating), but the reality of it is the mature thing is to just boot anyone causing problems. If it persists, then ban them (which by the way the next version of JA will feature the new ban code that Lee came up with), instead, these childish admins make it so that players can't move or whatnot & kill them & do whatever other cheap thing they can come up with before they boot somebody who was more than likely just a n00b & didn't know any better in the first place. That's how the newcomers of the game are treated & then people wonder why the game is dying.

Do not get me wrong, we appreciate your feedback, but before you go ranting on about how something else is better really check out what it is we are offering first.
The main point of this quote is the underlined part. This is how our newcomers are treated Chosen One. Don't get me wrong, I realize this isn't something you started, it is however something you can help change.


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Old 04-16-2003, 11:50 AM   #69
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The Full Force Duel is for the ultimate duel challenge. Everything is allowed and kick damage is normal. Essentially, this duel type is a full wide open free for all between two consenting adults. Your blows and force blasts will not effect other players. This is the most complex and most difficult contest, equivalent to full force duel matches, but with the added interest of the free-for-all game when not duelling.

?

So basically in your mod I could run a FFA server and allow people to go up and "press K" and duel in total full Force combat?


If that is the case that is cool as **** (pardon the expression).
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Old 04-16-2003, 11:40 PM   #70
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Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
?

So basically in your mod I could run a FFA server and allow people to go up and "press K" and duel in total full Force combat?


If that is the case that is cool as **** (pardon the expression).
Ya, duelers can do that & tons more. There are a variety of private duel commands, both users have to accept that kind of challenge for it to take place, but that's not even close to being 1 of top key features of the mod. I think you should really check it out alot more further (http://duelers.jk2files.com).

Right now the main thing holding Duelers back is the fact everyone doesn't want to take the time to read the manual, etc; etc. Duelers Full should do much better as it not only has a variety of more features than jsut the mod itself, but it also has alot more automated features for install, alot more presets for servers, hilts, etc; etc.


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Old 04-17-2003, 12:22 AM   #71
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no kidding. I'm guessing that MOST people don't even touch the mod manual even when they have problems with the mod.


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Old 04-17-2003, 01:11 AM   #72
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To be honest this mod sounds really cool if Iím reading everything on your page correctly.
However there is one small thing that is kind of holding me back from putting it on our server.

How much of this was based of the VAM code and is the spectator/saber throw bug in there?

Our clan/server is pretty much Full Force duel and this mod would be great, but losing a saber every time you have a guy in spec mode pretty much makes Full Force dueling impossible because saber throwing is so common.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:46 AM   #73
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Shock, you talking to me or Marker?


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Old 04-17-2003, 02:38 AM   #74
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007 guy who made duelers.

I already know MOTF pwns.



I'm just curious about some stuff in the mod.
I went to a few servers running it but it was during an off peak time and they only had bots so it was hard to really get a feel for what it does.

I did d/l and run a "listen" (non dedicated) server and ran around in it and I liked what I saw but I really havenít been able to see it in action as far as the multiple duels and Full Force saber challenge stuff goes.


This sounds perfect for our clan server but I'm holding off on putting it in just because I have to contact our host and have them make the changes and it's kind of a pain in the ass so I want to make sure this is what I think it is.

So far though this sounds like a very solid and professional mod for the duel community the only thing I want to find out about is the saber throw bug from VAM/JAM and if it is in there still.
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Old 04-17-2003, 04:44 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
To be honest this mod sounds really cool if Iím reading everything on your page correctly.
However there is one small thing that is kind of holding me back from putting it on our server.

How much of this was based of the VAM code and is the spectator/saber throw bug in there?
Razorace (MotF coder) & Lee (Duelers coder) have gotten together & shared a few bug fixes & whatnot with some of the other coders in the community. It's actually a thread Razorace started, but Lee has joined in hopes to improve all mods (which is why JA will feature the ban code fix in the next version, it's Lee's code from Duelers 1.2).

To answer the question, none of the code is based on VAM. Duelers is a JediMod (NOT JediPlus/OmniMod) based mod. The spectator/saber throw bug is something that ravensoft fixed in the 1.04 version, but never updated the source they released, so it's something in all mods up until now. I'm sure Razorace is going to add it, not sure about JA, & Lee has added it into the 1.2.1 version of Duelers, but that's a beta. The current release of Duelers is 1.2 & that bug is not fixed in that version (however the 1.2.1 beta is available for download in the beta forums), it will however be fixed in the new version along with a variety of other things including doubling the amount of player models you can select & a few other cool things as well. Checkout the Duelers Beta Forum for more info on that.
Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Our clan/server is pretty much Full Force duel and this mod would be great, but losing a saber every time you have a guy in spec mode pretty much makes Full Force dueling impossible because saber throwing is so common.
I hear ya, like I said, if you download the 1.2.1 beta it is fixed there, but most people will probably only have 1.2, not 1.2.1; BUT, with this new duel mode the only time people are in spectate mode is when they are AFK. While waiting to duel, you can either do an FFA type thing & just saber attack whoever is not in a duel (kills/deaths do not count here, only in duels), or there is a server cvar for making it so that players can not interact with one another while waiting to duel (good for those who want to keep the chats alive while waiting to duel, however, there is not that much of a wait anymore ).

Either way, the duel code is dramatically improved. I was playing 1.2 all day today & we are finally starting to get some servers (only been released for less than a week & I'm complaining that there's no servers already ) & when people really check out the mod, they will see what the hype is all about.

Duelers Full (as opposed to Duelers Basic which is currently released) will be much better though, much more automated features, variety of presets for servers, hilts, etc; etc. It is really aimed to pamper those who don't want to read the manual & get the into the mod.
Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
I already know MOTF pwns.
I'm going to be honest Razorace, I think the mod has a good concept for the whole "dueling in first person" thing, but I don't think it's something that should neccessarily be pushed on people with the mod. The main thing I see holding it back is how hard it is to do a yellow DFA. I could pretty much hang with the change, & I can see where you're going with it, it's a cool change, but I don't see it making it big & that yellow DFA part is a big reason why. Just trying to give some constructive critisism, don't get me wrong.
Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
I did d/l and run a "listen" (non dedicated) server and ran around in it and I liked what I saw but I really havenít been able to see it in action as far as the multiple duels and Full Force saber challenge stuff goes.
First of all, there is a minor bug with the hilts in listen mode. For the host (& only the host), hilts do not have any textures, but if you refresh your video settings (/vid_restart in console) whatever hilt you have will show up fine.

The cool thing about Duelers is you have a variety of options with it. I'm not sure exactly what it is you are looking for, but in FFA mode you can do a variety of private duel challenges as long as both clients accept the challenge, some that allow FF (regardless of server settings, unless the server has this option turned off), FF with no throw, etc; etc. There's 3 diff kinds I believe, I mainly focus on the duel aspect so I'm not to sure about all that.

The duel code is amazing, if you want to keep things like the base game, then I recommend you disabling the dual sabers & dual bladed sabers. We default it to the 2 extra stances are for dual sabers/dual bladed sabers only & you can not have dual dual bladed sabers, again, this is just the default settings.

There is also a 1 click kick cvar, it shows the health at the end of duels, it has the best hilt pack around, etc; etc. it's well worth your time. I think we have about 5 servers going already & the mod has been out since Sunday, hopefully things will keep up & there will be over 30 servers by the end of the month.

If you guys don't mind, I would like to keep Duelers convo on the Duelers forums, again the URL to the Duelers website is at http://duelers.jk2files.com (use IE, we know it's a pain, it's just a temp page until I can get Full done).


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Old 04-17-2003, 05:08 AM   #76
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Gees! Doesn't ANYONE press P (the standard Third Person Toggle) or READ MANUALS anymore?! MotF still has the standard third person view for those who want to use it. I don't beleive in removing or restricting options so there's no way I'd FORCE True View on people.


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Old 04-17-2003, 06:10 AM   #77
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I'll grab the beta and check it out.

My main concern with the saber throw bug is not related to the new duel game type or it happening in FFA mode.

We still will run g_gametype 3 at times (duel) and I was concerned with the bug effecting game play when you are forced to have spectators due to the game type (FF dueling is impossible with VAM or JA due to this).

Mainly what your mod seems to provide that I'm after is a way for say 4 people who want to duel Full Force to be able to do so while the rest of the server runs around in a FFA.

That alone is worth the download.

Personally things like grapple, jet packs and double sabers are a nice novelty but for competitive clans we have to run things on default when we practice because league matches do not allow anything other than default cvars.

So long as emotes/grapple/jet packs/double sabers and other non base jk2 things can be disabled in the server.cfg this mod would suit us perfectly.

Thanks for all the info and once we have it in Iíll post any bugs and whatnot we discover on your forums.
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Old 04-17-2003, 01:49 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
Gees! Doesn't ANYONE press P (the standard Third Person Toggle) or READ MANUALS anymore?! MotF still has the standard third person view for those who want to use it. I don't beleive in removing or restricting options so there's no way I'd FORCE True View on people.
I read ALL the docs man, I didn't see that in the cvars.txt.
Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Personally things like grapple, jet packs and double sabers are a nice novelty but for competitive clans we have to run things on default when we practice because league matches do not allow anything other than default cvars.
Well, the default settings for Full is going to be different from Basic. Example, jetpacks in Duelers use the shield energy for fuel, in basic it defaults to using 5 shield per second, in full it will be 1 shield per second. In Basic, the grapple is defaulted to always being on, in Full it will be defaulted to only in non-duels, etc; etc.

Not only that, there will also be a variety of presets, so that means a variety of defautls as well. The more feedback we get from basic, the better full will be. If anyone thinks the default settings should be changed to something else, you can post about it in the forums & we just may change it.
Quote:
Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
So long as emotes/grapple/jet packs/double sabers and other non base jk2 things can be disabled in the server.cfg this mod would suit us perfectly.

Thanks for all the info and once we have it in Iíll post any bugs and whatnot we discover on your forums.
Good to know, be sure to post any suggestions as well. We have a variety of forums & I check the at least a couple times a day.

1 last thing, did the JA coder ever come back? I PM'ed him about this thread & I do not see any posts from him since my first post.


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Old 04-17-2003, 04:11 PM   #79
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hmmmm....Looks like that's not obvious from the last released version of the documentions. Sorry about that, it's like teaching, if most of your students aren't getting it, you're doing something wrong. I've already cleared that up in the lastest documentation and have posted several threads about this on the forums.


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Old 04-17-2003, 04:28 PM   #80
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/me thinks this thread should be split and the first part - closed.

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