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Old 04-05-2003, 12:25 PM   #1
wepeel
 
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Thumbs down thoughts

remember, this is only my opinion and no one has to agree with me...

well to start out, this series of star wars games has gone a long way. kyle was once a mercenary to be feared with cool weapons and planets that were way unique back in the day(hey I had to upgrade my 486 dx/2 to 8mb! of ram to play this game)with some cool mods and everything. Now he is a saber slinging madman that has suposedly mastered both sides of the force.

to me, they need to give up the name and call it something different, because this is not Jedi Knight 3, its dark forces 4. when jedi knight:dark forces 2 came out, that game was groundbreaking, at least to me. there were no patches for the game(except to fix a joystick issue) so there was basicly no significant gameplay change, but there was still a whole lot of cheating, which was frustrating and the lack of being able to have more than 6-8 people in a game made for some interesting battles. Everyone remembers canyon oasis and battleground jedi. those levels, though overplayed, were perfect. the lightsaber battles in the game were inconsist and jacked up, so they decided to make another product...

Jedi Knight 2(no more dark forces, even though it would make sense it would be called dark forces 3 since jedi knight 1 was dark forces 2)this game was even more ground breaking! awesome graphics, quality levels, and much much better light saber battles. this was the game for all the fans(even though in my opinion was more EU than ever). it was a sucess...untill they started patching it, and patching it, untill the gameplay was different from how it was out of the box. i got sick of the non creative ways to kill people and redundant moves that everyone used, thus I stopped playing.

I havent been back here in a while, untill I heard about the new installment in this series of games. so what will this game bring? well it looks like they are focusing even more on lightsabers, and forgetting about guns. that fine and all, but to me this whole series started out with the mercenery type feel with guns and has evolved into pure lightsabers. I guess thats what people really want though.

all in all, this new game may be good, but I feel they need to just drop the guns and focus on lightsabers, give it a new name outside of the jedi knight name, and make another series of games made specificly with guns in mind, with mercenaries and bounty hunters and all that cool stuff. the EU side of things doesnt bother me that much but at least make the storyline really creative and feel more star wars like...

i dunno, sorry for the long post, but again this is just my thoughts and you can get mad if you want...
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Old 04-05-2003, 12:34 PM   #2
The_One
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Yeah, I can see your point. It's come to the stage where guns and sabres don't really belong in the same game.

A Jedi Knight should just use his sabre (and sabre variations), without the guns. Everyone agreed JKII only really got good when you obtained the sabre. They didn't put much effeort into the mediocre guns.

Dark Forces was designed with guns in mind, which made it good.

It's a shameless plug, but you might want to check out the Dark Forces MOD (link in sig) - obviously the focus is purely on guns. Myself and StormHammer are already thinking about perhaps modding a new game after the Dark Forces MOD is complete which will focus on Kyle Katarn in his mercenary days (before the original DF) - more guns action. Check out the Dark Forces forum for discussion on this by looking down the main JKII.net forum page.

But yeah, I can certainly see where you're coming from.



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Old 04-05-2003, 01:04 PM   #3
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It's come to the stage where guns and sabres don't really belong in the same game.
<-- disgagrees
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Old 04-05-2003, 01:14 PM   #4
HertogJan
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Well, it doesn't make sense to make a game called "Jedi Knight" a game where you mostly use guns, right?? I believe that there was plenty of room in JO to play with guns, especially in the first levels (where you don't have a saber, doh!). The guns weren't mediocre, some of them rocked!!

I agree with you though, that the original DF games and JO are different in a lot of ways. So yeah, maybe LucasArts SHOULD make more gun focussed games, but I don't think those games would sell enough to be profitable. Lightsabers are the most important reason I like StarWars games, or Star Wars in general...


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Old 04-05-2003, 02:37 PM   #5
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I disagree with this topic and agree.. I believe that jedis should only use their sabers.. But if your playing a multi player game on the internet with just sabers.. That can get boring over a time... I think thats why the guns come in.. Also remember that not all people use sabers.. there are GUNNERS and SABERISTS.. So if anyone disagrees or agrees with this topic there is always gonna be an opposition..

(My opinion)
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Old 04-05-2003, 02:45 PM   #6
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Everyone remembers canyon oasis and battleground jedi
I Still think they really sohuld kept Canyon oasis in there and even though they remade bgj they mcuked it up becuase it was a dif engine (you couldn't do the same things cos jk used the x-wing engine which made sidestepping and running forwardm ake you go faster) so they made the map smaller but there was also smaller space to fight in.
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Old 04-05-2003, 02:52 PM   #7
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Umm.... Sabers have been becoming far more useful.

Many will agree that whilst the inclusion of the lightsabre in JKI was great fun, it was not of any great use except against Bosses.

Then JKII brought it to the forefront. It was that or the blaster rifle for me all the way from that point on (except for some dubious application of the Merr Sonn during the stealth section.... )

And now we can pick hilts, colours, but more importantly - saber class / style!

I think that, once the game is settled in, a good modding time could finally solve this.

I have always thought that a Jedi packing heat to the tune of a rocket launcher was wrong. But a single blaster may be. Corran. Kyle - the more weathered scoundrels would do.

A mod could add a saber style where by you fight two handed with a single saber, but can pull a blaster with the other during fire fights and light saber combat. You keep the saber in your other hand and use it.

This would mean primary fire would be a simple strike and secondary would be to fire a blaster bolt.

This would give the sort of gun/saber cross over that many would like. (I would love to try it out)



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Old 04-14-2003, 10:42 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by The_One
Yeah, I can see your point. It's come to the stage where guns and sabres don't really belong in the same game. A Jedi Knight should just use his sabre (and sabre variations), without the guns.
Hmmm...I agree and disagree. As nova_wolf stated, it seems a bit weird for a Jedi to cart around heavier weapons like rocket launchers etc. I don't really see much wrong with a roguish Jedi having a blaster for backup, though.

The problem in both JK and particularly JO was that the blaster bolts were simply too slow. If your enemy standing ten paces away can simply dodge a shot...well, that's not Star Wars, IMHO. Blasters should be near-instant hit over considerable distance, and instant-hit in close quarters. You shouldn't be able to dodge a shot that close.

Quote:
They didn't put much effeort into the mediocre guns.
Hmmm...I don't think that's really very fair. A lot of the guns did feel like their counterparts in JK and DF, so they did spend time trying to get them right in the context of the other games. I'm certainly not a fan of all the weapons, and they do have issues (like speed of blaster bolts), but overall the designs and sounds were executed very well, IMHO. Personally I could manage better without the flechette, heavy repeater or rocket launcher, and better accuracy for the proper blasters (even the E-11 was a bit too erratic in JO - I remember in the original DF it was quite accurate, and they should have toned down the 'stray-shot-syndrome' introduced in JK).


As far as JA goes...well, because it's an even greater focus on the ways of the Jedi, it would actually make more sense to have less choice of guns this time around. Now that sounds a bit odd coming from a Gunner-at-heart, but the way the series is going now, I can't see a continuing need for a large arsenal for a Jedi character.

What is needed is a parallel SW FPS series that does focus more on guns, and as I've said in the past, they could make a perfectly good game in the context of Imperial or Rebel Commandos - who usually do not have any links to the Force. They could even do for the FPS what they did for the flight games...X-Wing and TIE-fighter. Let you step into Stormtrooper armour and live for the glory of the Empire by eradicating the rebel scum on a variety of missions. There is a great deal of scope for guns within Star Wars, and if executed properly would be just as exciting and fulfilling as playing a Jedi with Force and Sabers, IMHO.

As for MP...well, maybe it's time for them to start thinking in terms of Unreal Tournament, and make a game purely focused on MP combat, with a variety of styles, a variety of weapon load-outs, a couple of RPG modes, and what-have-you, to try and address all of the issues that have arisen within the MP community. I'm talking about having different game modes that actually adjust weapon damage per mode, not simply do a blanket revision that affects everyone playig every game type - because this has been the bitter crux of dissent and frustration. They need to give pure saberists the chance to play exactly the way they want AND allow the gunners to play the way they want as well. To my mind, the only way to accomplish this is change the types of moves, weapon damage, even movement speeds, per game mode. That obviously needs a great deal more work - and a hard line drawn between the game modes themselves. On the other hand, I think it could fully address the issues raised in these (and other) forums.

I just hope that someone from Lucasarts actually recognises the need for this parallelisation to improve full market saturation for the franchise.
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Old 04-14-2003, 12:45 PM   #9
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or, in an alternate form of parallelisation (sp?):

people have been calling for ages for a JK2:JA style game where you get to make your own bounty hunter and select cool weapons, armour etc... and select your missions. This game would rule!

So, split it into 2 games. One based on sabers and jedi, one based on weapons... but make them link up for multiplayer. (shouldn't be too hard if they both have the same engine).



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Old 04-14-2003, 01:21 PM   #10
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You know, I agree with you 100%.

They should have just stuck with the Dark Forces title.

Even though Doom was my first FPS, when I played Dark Forces, it really took me into a new aspect of the SW universe, and it fit so well. Plus, the missions and story line on Dark Forces were compelling. I could not stop playing it. However, I came to Dark Forces late. My first experience with Dark Forces, was on the Playstation, in fact... I bought the playstation just for Dark Forces and Rebel Assult II.

My very first computer game was Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. Now maybe I am biased... but I still feel that it is the best Star Wars game ever made. It could be because It was the first PC I ever bought, but I was even more hooked on that game, than I was on Dark Forces. Plust the graphics were brighter, much more adventure. (Dark Forces had a tendancy to make me kind of sick to my stomach from excessive play)

I was very exited about Jedi Outcast, but the title really threw me off. JKII: Jedi Outcast?!?!?

What got me exited about it was the duel saber challenges, but I found the game overall, to be too complicated at times. Now, you have to open up a console and type in several codes to get the groovy cheats, and after you die, you have to go through that grueling process again. I must admit, I like all the mods and models you can add. The game is completely customizable, however.... The patches, and patches and yet more patches...

Then there is all the game mods, Pro-mod, Omnimod, all the blasted versions.......blech! Then there is the server issue. Every damn server has a stupid mod you have to download just to play the game. I also found alot of arseholes involved in this game. It was my first experience with braggarts, hackers, and all out annoying people. There were only select servers I felt safe at. I am not a serious gamer... hell, I am not even a good gamer. I just love Star Wars, and Star Wars related games. I found some cool people to play with here and there, and even a few people that tought me tips on gameplay.

Games have become so complicated now days. It is no longer just a game, now you have clans, and hackers, and all out jerks, who can ruin a game to no end. Now days, you have to have special components installed on your machine, just to play a freaking game that is going to have a zillion bugs anyway.

I for one, do hope they ditch Katarn in favor of a new concept, but I don't hate Kyle. It is just the fact that nobody ever had the actual character in mind when they designed these games. After Dark Forces, he showed promise in the EU, but he has been poorly mismanaged and is even laughable at times.

With the release of JKIII(I dispute the title), I hope they finally make a game, where you don't have to be a computer geek to operate, nor have to download a freaking patch every 30 days just to play on the server. That is the focus Raven needs to stick too. Make a Star Wars game that all people will love to play, and stop trying to capitilaze on the audience of pre-existing games. Be original, and keep it fun.

That is my wish...
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:09 PM   #11
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the lightsaber is my wep of choice but it really wouldnt be the same without guns
i know jedi's dont use guns but in some cases you just have to

anyways like someone else said the MP wouldnt be as fun without them

as for the titles i have no idea why they decided to go a diffrent way
its never bothered me though, i always knew there was a relation between them so i didnt really need to see the DF title in it, i just find it goes with out saying imo
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Old 04-14-2003, 04:15 PM   #12
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I say if some people like guns it doesn't hurt cause u can defend them with ur saber.


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Old 04-15-2003, 12:59 AM   #13
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Re: thoughts

Quote:
Originally posted by wepeel
remember, this is only my opinion and no one has to agree with me...

well to start out, this series of star wars games has gone a long way. kyle was once a mercenary to be feared with cool weapons and planets that were way unique back in the day(hey I had to upgrade my 486 dx/2 to 8mb! of ram to play this game)with some cool mods and everything. Now he is a saber slinging madman that has suposedly mastered both sides of the force.

to me, they need to give up the name and call it something different, because this is not Jedi Knight 3, its dark forces 4. when jedi knight:dark forces 2 came out, that game was groundbreaking, at least to me. there were no patches for the game(except to fix a joystick issue) so there was basicly no significant gameplay change, but there was still a whole lot of cheating, which was frustrating and the lack of being able to have more than 6-8 people in a game made for some interesting battles. Everyone remembers canyon oasis and battleground jedi. those levels, though overplayed, were perfect. the lightsaber battles in the game were inconsist and jacked up, so they decided to make another product...

Jedi Knight 2(no more dark forces, even though it would make sense it would be called dark forces 3 since jedi knight 1 was dark forces 2)this game was even more ground breaking! awesome graphics, quality levels, and much much better light saber battles. this was the game for all the fans(even though in my opinion was more EU than ever). it was a sucess...untill they started patching it, and patching it, untill the gameplay was different from how it was out of the box. i got sick of the non creative ways to kill people and redundant moves that everyone used, thus I stopped playing.

I havent been back here in a while, untill I heard about the new installment in this series of games. so what will this game bring? well it looks like they are focusing even more on lightsabers, and forgetting about guns. that fine and all, but to me this whole series started out with the mercenery type feel with guns and has evolved into pure lightsabers. I guess thats what people really want though.

all in all, this new game may be good, but I feel they need to just drop the guns and focus on lightsabers, give it a new name outside of the jedi knight name, and make another series of games made specificly with guns in mind, with mercenaries and bounty hunters and all that cool stuff. the EU side of things doesnt bother me that much but at least make the storyline really creative and feel more star wars like...

i dunno, sorry for the long post, but again this is just my thoughts and you can get mad if you want...
mots does not count. i meen you seen mara jade how did she meet kyle. we all dont know. to be fair it is jk3 because i past a trailer that df2 has star wars jedi knight. it did not have df2 at the end just that. then they made a new game. called jk2:jo then in 2003 they are makeing jk3:ja so this makes senes to me.


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Old 04-15-2003, 07:14 AM   #14
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Well first of all:Marketing issues.

We want some pronouncable titlesm i was already a bit pissed of at saying vampire the masquerade redemption, so actually calling this game Dark forces 4:Jedi knight 3: Jedi academy is overkill imo.

Another issue is that they still need their money, now we people might now dark forces 1 but most players simply dont, jkII was a hit however so they want to make it JKIII because people remember jkII was a good game.

Now i dont see them calling quakeIII something completely different even though it is, people recognise the name.

And multiplayer communities are what make it worthwile, and i have to agree with you the amount of typekilliers and hackers are quite high, but i also have to say that most clans actually try to stop these people from coming on their servers.
Plus in a clan you can play with a group of people which you'll become to like instead of seeing new people everyday which you wont get used to.
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Old 04-15-2003, 03:55 PM   #15
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Red face

Just 1 thing, you people are probably wrong. they'll probably think up a really cool name to call it.





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Old 04-15-2003, 04:35 PM   #16
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Hackers? LOL! Multiple people in this thread have complained about hackers in JO. Guess what, for all intents and purposes there are none! (This is quite a change from JK, when hacks were rampant.) If you think someone is hacking he's probably just much better than you. When someone thought I was using an aimbot I took it as a compliment.


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Old 04-15-2003, 04:36 PM   #17
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Um...I thought Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy WAS the title? No mention of Kyle or Dark Forces whatsoever.
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Old 04-15-2003, 04:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solo4114
Um...I thought Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy WAS the title? No mention of Kyle or Dark Forces whatsoever.
This is correct. Go to the LEC site, you will see no mention of DF or JK3. This is simply Jedi Knight: Jedi Acadamy. No more, no less.

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Old 04-15-2003, 11:46 PM   #19
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One of my many and varied sources has sent me a translated version of the Jedi Knight III interview posted in Gamestar's magazine. It's not too long but now that we know this thing is for real we might as well have a look!

Read on for the interview.


Q: Why are you still using the Q3-engine?

A: We got to know that engine very well over time so now we can do things we thought we couldn't do when we made JK2, things your readers haven't seen before! Also, better hardware allows us to do more. For example, we now can use notably more curved surfaces.

Q: Why don't we get to play Kyle Katarn anymore?

A: We didn't want to repeat ourselves, wed rather try something new instead. We also didn't want to run into trouble with the logic of the story since Kyle becomes a mighty Jedi knight at the end of JK2. Don't worry, he'll play an important role in JK3 nonetheless.

Q: Was it your idea to focus on the sword fights or did you do it because JK2 fans demanded it?

A: Both. To be honest, when we started developing JK2 we were very skeptical about whether the sword fights would work or not. Shortly before we finished working on the game we realized how fun they were. Press and fans shared that opinion, so it was clear that we were going to feature more of that in JK3.

Q: How are you going to keep the tension up during the whole 30 hours the single-player mode is supposed to take?

A: We'll feature an incredible variety of levels. Instead of switching the 'theme/location' every third or fourth mission players will get to see new themes, locations and styles every mission with varied visuals and game play.



Ok, I know you're here for the interview but I insist you have a look at our Vietcong Impressions. It's a sleeper hit in the making and many of you may miss out on it otherwise. That would be a crying shame.

This Meens we all get to see kyle.

p.s this game is the follow up from Star Wars Jedi Knight 2 : Jedi Outcast.


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