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Old 05-11-2003, 11:49 AM   #1
C'jais
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High school hazings

High school hazing injures 5 girls

‘Powderpuff’ football game erupts in violence in Illinois


NBC NEWS AND NEWS SERVICES

GLENBROOK, Ill., May 7 — A “powderpuff” touch football game that was an annual hazing tradition at a suburban Chicago high school turned into a muddy brawl that left five teenage girls injured, authorities said.

OFFICIALS AT GLENBROOK North High School and police were reviewing videotapes and photographs of the incident, which occurred Sunday, to identify the participants. Police indicated that criminal charges could be filed.
Officials at the 2,100-student high school told the Chicago Tribune that the fracas occurred off campus, during what they said was an annual hazing ritual in which seniors would square off with juniors — all of them girls — for a touch football game.
The younger girls, who were charged $35 to $40 apiece and were provided with jerseys, said they were expecting some form of mild hazing during the contest but instead were hit and spattered with pig intestines, fish guts, blood and smelly trash, four girls who said they attended the game told the Tribune on condition of anonymity.
“It was supposed to be a friendly initiation into our senior year,” a 17-year-old told the newspaper, saying she required stitches after being “hit over the head with a bat or a bucket.”
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‘SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME!’

In a videotape of the incident obtained by NBC affiliate WMAQ-TV of Chicago, senior girls are seen pouring paint on juniors, rubbing what some said was animal manure in their faces and forcing them to swallow what were reported to be animal parts.
“Someone please help me! Can you please help me?” one of the girls is heard crying.
Glenbrook District School Superintendent Dave Hales told the Tribune that one report said “human excrement” also was thrown at the juniors.

In a study conducted in 2000 by Alfred University in Alfred, N.Y., 48 percent of students nationwide said they had experienced some form of hazing. The study recommended that school administrators adopt written guidelines on hazing and establish a strong disciplinary record.
But Glenbrook North Principal Michael Riggle, who said alcohol contributed to the violence, maintained that the school could not be held responsible.
“The problem that we have is it always takes place in an area that is not on our campus, and it’s not school-sanctioned. Our students even try to hide the location,” Riggle told NBC News.
In addition to the girl who required stitches, one girl suffered a broken ankle in the incident. Three others were treated for bumps and bruises, school officials said.



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Old 05-11-2003, 12:14 PM   #2
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senior girls are seen pouring paint on juniors, rubbing what some said was animal manure in their faces and forcing them to swallow what were reported to be animal parts.
I pray silently they weren't Hindus or anything. I also feel no need to know specifically which parts.

This whole thing reminds me of those high school graduates ("Russes") who shot at middle schoolers at a school with water rifles filled with pee.. ugh.

IMO, the only thing that can be done is to bring teachers, parents, and/or security guards to the games. This is downright horrible.

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Old 05-11-2003, 02:16 PM   #3
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I was surprised that 48% reported that they had experienced hazing in high school. I had never, ever experienced it, nor had I ever heard of anyone in my school going through it.

Still, I think it's pretty messed up. Hazing is ok if it's done in good fun. I mean, something like wearing a goofy t-shirt al day or dying your hair some nasty color, that's allright. But paint and animal parts? Against their will? Not good.


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Old 05-12-2003, 04:48 AM   #4
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That's just mean...


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Old 05-12-2003, 05:49 PM   #5
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Hazing is a big part of some of the little rituals in the U.S. Military.

There is something similar called a shell back ceremony in the Marines and Navy. When a group of us has crossed the equator we have a shell back ceremony lots of unpolite and nasty things happen. A lot like was described above in the article. After words you get a certificate that you have gone from a "poly wog" to a "shell back" it's a little silly, but oh well.

If you don't like being hazed than don't participate in things were it's going to happen. If you do deal with it, get over it, and move on. There has probably been people that have goon threw worse things than them poor little girls ........ Not that I would know anything about hazing or getting hazed.


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Old 05-12-2003, 09:49 PM   #6
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Yes, my grandfather said that when he joined the military, they had to have bed and room inspections and the older guys would come in and ruin their beds right before they inspectors came in. So one day he just knocked one out with a punch and told the commanding officer and the guy got in trouble. Many more things were done to him in the Army but he always fought back and didn't let them happen to him. This gave the other guys confidence to stand up to the older cadets and recruits and finally the hazing stopped all together.

But, this is a terrible incident. How people can bring themselves to do this kind of thing is amazing and sickening to me. I don't care if they were drunk, at least one of them should have had enough common sense to say, "stop."

And I just read that the school is pursuing legal action but the students will be allowed to remain in school for that time because "it was out of the school districts jurisdiction." I hope these kids get sent to boot camp or something because what they did is sick, real sick.
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Old 05-12-2003, 10:46 PM   #7
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I have been through some hazing (extremely light, and fun in the end) and I have heard of hazing on our college campus, but this is just downright disgusting. I am all for "initiations" as I see it as just something that has always been around and usually does not result in serious injury. However, that whole thing is just inexcusable. None of that sounds either fun or acceptable to a normal, rational person.


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Old 05-12-2003, 11:33 PM   #8
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If you don't like being hazed than don't participate in things were it's going to happen. If you do deal with it, get over it, and move on. There has probably been people that have goon threw worse things than them poor little girls ........ Not that I would know anything about hazing or getting hazed.
I'm so glad you care. But now you must die.

Look, you can have initialization pranks as long as they are harmless. Stuffing animal parts into someone's mouth and making them swallow it is not harmless.

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And I just read that the school is pursuing legal action but the students will be allowed to remain in school for that time because "it was out of the school districts jurisdiction." I hope these kids get sent to boot camp or something because what they did is sick, real sick.
No matter if it's inside or outside school, that's illegal. Let the law handle it, not the school administration (although they definetly should have a say in it).

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Old 05-12-2003, 11:55 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
No matter if it's inside or outside school, that's illegal. Let the law handle it, not the school administration (although they definetly should have a say in it).
Yes, that's what I'm saying. BUT, I think the school should suspend them or something, not just from sports but from actual school time.
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Old 05-13-2003, 12:20 AM   #10
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Yes, that's what I'm saying. BUT, I think the school should suspend them or something, not just from sports but from actual school time.
Agreed. After all, it's a school-related incident carried out by students against students. It might be off-campus, but the school decides how to punish people who misbehave at field trips, right? So why not at off-campus football games? What's the difference?

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Old 05-13-2003, 01:10 AM   #11
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These girls voluntarily went to this annual hazing tradition event. They knew what it was, and they chose to participate. Yeah, it sounds like they had an awful time, but how much fun do you expect to have at an annual hazing tradition event?

In the hypothetical, if hazing happens in the military, it is unavoidable. If a supposed hazing ever happened to me, it quite possibly could have been because I did not have the option to refuse it. These girls, who are only in highschool, who are in a position to avoid a hazing, or not participate in it, chose to go to an annual hazing tradition event.

I have no pity for them. They had some animal guts and crap thrown on them or whatnot, maybe even some human (gasp!) feces thrown on them. Big deal. I used to stand hip deep in human feces and shovel it as my job, day in and day out. It's not like they were physically beat for hours, or forced to consume alcohol until near the point of poisoning, if things like that ever happen. Crybabies.

They chose this.
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:24 AM   #12
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agreed munik but this kind of crap wasn't expected. the original hazing was just geting their shirts painted on with non-toxic paint and their hair cut short. these girls took it to extreme lengths buy putting toxic paint in the juniors mouths and beating them with blunt objects, kicking them, forcing feces down their throats, covering them in mud, covering them in feces, and crapping on them, plus shoving pig testicles down their throats, and even ripping out some hair.

now jack and you other people saying so what i'd like you to go through that and come tell us how you enjoyed it.


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Old 05-13-2003, 01:26 AM   #13
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Originally posted by munik
It's not like they were physically beat for hours, or forced to consume alcohol until near the point of poisoning, if things like that ever happen. Crybabies.

They chose this.
they were beat for hours. on the video you could see them getting kicked and beat in the head. they were forced to eat the feces too.


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Old 05-13-2003, 01:26 AM   #14
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That's downright bull, and you know it.

They went to a hazing game, yes, BUT,
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The younger girls, who were charged $35 to $40 apiece and were provided with jerseys, said they were expecting some form of mild hazing during the contest but instead were hit and spattered with pig intestines, fish guts, blood and smelly trash, four girls who said they attended the game told the Tribune on condition of anonymity.
Says nowhere in the article that they expected to have this **** happen to them. Rather the opposite. They expected innocent teasing but got this illegal stuff. Big difference.

If you go to a water fight and expect to be fired at by water guns, and unexpectedly the opposing team's were filled with blood, spit, mud, and piss, could someone say you chose that so it's your own fault?

No. You chose to be fired at with water guns, yes, You'd expect to have WATER fired at you. See the difference?

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Old 05-13-2003, 02:22 AM   #15
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Insane, I did not see the video and really don't know much of the situation outside of the first post. I didn't know they were beat on.

With that said, I personally (that means it's what I think of it) do not see a big deal in it. Yes, it appears to be worse then they expected, but by no means a very terrible event. I know what hazing is. I have no illusions about it. If those who got hazed enjoyed the experience, or had fun, then they did not get hazed. Hazed is a negative word, it denotes a bad thing. If I expected some form of mild hazing, and after the hazing I did not need immediate medical attention then I got what I expected. I do not know of hazing that doesn't consist of physical and mental abuse, and humiliation.

This may be where the split in opinions comes from. Some people believe hazing can be mild. Others know that it can be far beyond mild. From where I'm sitting, they got what they expected, a mild hazing.

One more point, for Insane. I'm willing to wager that Jack has most likely gone through hazing much worse then those girls. No one likes it, (analogy time!) but someone who breaks 20 bones in a 5 story fall can call someone a whiner if they make a big deal about stubbing their toe.
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:31 AM   #16
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
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Look, you can have initialization pranks as long as they are harmless. Stuffing animal parts into someone's mouth and making them swallow it is not harmless.
If you don't do that stuff it isn't really hazing. If someone was to ask me to go to something like that. That would be what I would expect. That's basically hazing right there. So I guess I really don't see the big deal here. If they didn't want to get hazed they shouldn't have gone..... like duhh

It's not like you can't be a senior without getting hazed. Basically what it was is you got a bunch of pansy little daddies girls and they wanted to be cool. Instead they got nasty and got pizzy. Now they are making a stink. I wouldn't doubt if one of the girls got the idea to do that crap from family in the military. The moral of the story. Don't ask for something if you're not ready to get it.

I think that's a big problem with the USA as it is. There are too many pansies in this country and they're breeding. Sooner or later we are going to be knee deep in Barnies and Telatuby crap. That's when I'm going to go postal.

I mean there are people in this world and their the life is much worse than them poor little girl's little torture initiation. That was a one time thing. Life isn't always roses and it can always get worse. If they can't get over that... Oh Freaking well. Knowing what I know about hazing I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for them.


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Old 05-13-2003, 08:58 PM   #17
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They were beat for hours. on the video you could see them getting kicked and beat in the head. they were forced to eat the feces too.
:hurl:
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agreed munik but this kind of crap wasn't expected. the original hazing was just geting their shirts painted on with non-toxic paint and their hair cut short.

These girls took it to extreme lengths buy putting toxic paint in the juniors mouths and beating them with blunt objects, kicking them, forcing feces down their throats, covering them in mud, covering them in feces, and crapping on them, plus shoving pig testicles down their throats, and even ripping out some hair.
Come again Those kinds of animal parts??
They never chose that.
It's like playing baseball and instead of having a baseball thrown at you, you
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I mean there are people in this world and their the life is much worse than them poor little girl's little torture initiation. That was a one time thing. Life isn't always roses and it can always get worse. If they can't get over that... Oh Freaking well. Knowing what I know about hazing I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for them.
Munik, CJ and you are right at one thing: People have gone trough worse. However, you're wrong.

The broken toe example: Good analogy, but you cannot refuse to have symphaty for the person whose toe got broken, can you? Personally, I feel sorry for both of them.

No matter if it's during a hazing or not, that's not okay. It's agains the law, it's deregatory, it's.. geez, I could go on and on.

To CJ it might be a broken wrist compared to a paper cut, but still, you should comfort the little girl getting a paper cut, too, shouldn't you? You can't refuse to have sympathy for these people.


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Old 05-13-2003, 09:23 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
To CJ it might be a broken wrist compared to a paper cut, but still, you should comfort the little girl getting a paper cut, too, shouldn't you? You can't refuse to have sympathy for these people.
Yes I can and do very easily. I would tell them the same thing I was told one time when I broke my foot on a 20 mile force march with 100 Lbs pack on my back. Walk it off..........

So once again they should get over it, move on, and stop winning. Consider it a learning experience.


"Dagobahn Eagle" you repeated you post you know?


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Old 05-13-2003, 10:33 PM   #19
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"Dagobahn Eagle" you repeated you post you know?
Like you do, you know?

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I would tell them the same thing I was told one time when I broke my foot on a 20 mile force march with 100 Lbs pack on my back. Walk it off..........
That doesn't make it right.

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Old 05-13-2003, 10:45 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Like you do, you know?
No I don't. What I meant since it's still up there. Is that you have your post the one before mine. On the thread 2 times one after another the same thing twice.....

I'm sorry if I'm not as soft hearted as it seems most people on this thread are. Especially towards this subject. To me it's not even news maybe a quick laugh that I suddenly loose interest in, but that's it.

I read the article and can't see anywhere where it says they couldn't have stop, walked, or ran away if it suited them. Were they tied down to a post or something? Were they chained and kept there in anyway that would have prevented them from leaving? I don't see it maybe I didn't read it well enough.


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Old 05-14-2003, 07:37 PM   #21
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CJ: The problem is that this wasn't just some innocent and fun experience. The girls never chose this, and it is fully illegal.

What would you think if some stranger threw you into a back alley and putting toxic paint in your mouth, beating you with blunt objects, kicking you, forcing feces down your throat, covering you in mud, covering you in feces, and crapping on you, plus shoving pig testicles down your throat, and even ripping out some hair. Would you really think of this as a good "learning experience"? Wouldn't it be a big deal? Should you just forget about it and move on?

I am asking you a question here.


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Old 05-14-2003, 09:15 PM   #22
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I think CJs argument is that hazings are part of some organizations, and if you cant handle it, dont join the organization.

The problem is that this, I believe, was a public school. These girls really didnt have much choice but join.


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Old 05-14-2003, 11:12 PM   #23
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[sarcasm]And I have no sympathy for the 9/11 victims. I mean, they chose to go into the WTC, right?[/sarcasm]
See my point?

I agree with Breton, CJ. He asked a good question that I suggest you answer.

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Old 05-14-2003, 11:27 PM   #24
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Well, CJ I see what you're saying but there were junior girls in highschool. They, honestly, wanted to fit in and agree to go through MILD hazing. MILD, that's the key word. Nothing was said to them about all that. That's what makes it wrong.

But... whatever floats your boat.
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Old 05-14-2003, 11:32 PM   #25
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[sarcasm]And I have no sympathy for the 9/11 victims. I mean, they chose to go into the WTC, right?[/sarcasm]

They knew they were going to the WTC, but they were going there to work....not to get a plane rammed into em.

Those girls knew they were going to get hazed......I personally think it's messed up how far those other girls took it......but Cosmos Jack and munik are entitled to their opinion......



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Old 05-14-2003, 11:44 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Breton
CJ: The problem is that this wasn't just some innocent and fun experience. The girls never chose this, and it is fully illegal.
Actually they did. They choice to show up for it. All forms of hazing are illegal, and relatively unpleasant your point?
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Originally posted by Breton
What would you think if some stranger threw you into a back alley and putting toxic paint in your mouth, beating you with blunt objects, kicking you, forcing feces down your throat, covering you in mud, covering you in feces, and crapping on you, plus shoving pig testicles down your throat, and even ripping out some hair.
Sounds like an episode of "Fear Factor" to me. Yes that's all very horrible terrible stuff there. Especially if you were thrown in an alley, but if you show up for it that's another matter. I never had any pig testicles shoved down my throat, and my hair was too short to rip out. I guess I don't understand, because I'm missing 2 key items. I read the article anyway and I think you adding some things if not wup wup...
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Originally posted by Breton
Would you really think of this as a good "learning experience"? Wouldn't it be a big deal? Should you just forget about it and move on?
Yep I would say don't walk down allies anymore, or show up for organized hazing events.
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Originally posted by Breton
I am asking you a question here.
Did that answer it ?
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Originally posted by ShockV1.89
The problem is that this, I believe, was a public school. These girls really didnt have much choice but join.
There is no school mandate that states you have to go to a powder puff game and get hazed to be a senior.
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
[sarcasm]And I have no sympathy for the 9/11 victims. I mean, they chose to go into the WTC, right?[/sarcasm]
See my point?
There is a huge difference between showing up for work and getting killed, and showing up for a scheduled hazing event, and getting hazed.
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
I agree with Breton, CJ. He asked a good question that I suggest you answer.
that's just silly.

I can tell none of you really seem to understand what hazing is. That's well and all, but like I said before. Don't expect me to change my point of view. The little event here while bad could have been much worse.


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Old 05-15-2003, 01:27 AM   #27
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The little event here while bad could have been much worse.
This is true. But it also could have been much better.

This attitude of "Well, you knew you were going to be hazed so it's your own fault" really doesnt hold water. It is true that it is partially the students fault for attending the event. But does that absolve the "hazers" of all blame? Does the fact that the students came to them make it allright?

I'll give an analogy: I walk through Central Park at 2 in the morning and get mugged and beaten and left for dead. True, I was stupid for doing this and walked right into it, but does that make it allright for my attackers to do this?

Perhaps a better solution would be to prevent it from happening at all, rather than just saying "Its your fault for going there!" Yes, but it's also their fault for doing it.


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Old 05-15-2003, 10:29 AM   #28
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Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Perhaps a better solution would be to prevent it from happening at all, rather than just saying "Its your fault for going there!" Yes, but it's also their fault for doing it.
I do agree with making it impossible for things like that to happen. Things like powder puff games or whatever are pointless in school. They don't serve any logical purpose, and they don't in the military either.

I never said I agreed with hazing, but I am a firm believer in knowing what you're getting yourself into. I never do anything without looking it up first, and seeing what it's about. I wouldn't take a walk in central park for instance until I read up on it.

"ShockV1.89"
Also thank you for not making some rude and silly remark.


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Old 05-15-2003, 10:38 AM   #29
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I have to agree with Cosmos on some of this...

the other girls have to accept some responsibity on this. The ones who went to the powder puff game knowing that they would get hazed. Yes, it did get out of hand...but they should be punished for participating in this event as well...
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:59 PM   #30
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"ShockV1.89"
Also thank you for not making some rude and silly remark.
Huh?


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Old 05-15-2003, 09:41 PM   #31
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Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Huh?
Shock, you have to understand. If everyone acted rudely, noone would notice him. He just doesn't want the attention taken from him, that's all .

This is what I tried to post last night before the half-a*sed attempt of an ISP (SBC Yahoo!) broke down, which basically happens every night.
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Actually they did. They choice to show up for it. All forms of hazing are illegal, and relatively unpleasant your point?
For, what, the third time?
They expected to be mildly hazed in a fun way and got this. There's a huge difference between showing up for getting paint sprayed on you and getting all those girls got.

They never showed up for any of that stuff described above. For the fifth time. Yes, they are both hazings, so?

Here are some better analogies:
  1. You work as a petsitter and advertise that you take care of cats, and you hear that you are to take care of a "slightly aggressive feline" for the weekend.

    You expect a cat, but instead, you get a tiger, and it eats half your foot. But sure, nobody should have sympathy for you because "she expected a feline, right"? Right, sure, duh. Except while they are both felines, cats and tigers are pretty different.
  2. Or a boat voulentarily going into a light breeze, expecting winds, and instead getting a hurricane and almost sinking. They're both winds, but two very different things. You could say you have no feelings for the crew of that ship for almost dying because "they expected the wind to be blowing".
  3. A hand grenade and the Hiroshima bomb are both explosives, still different things. Very different things.

Quote:
Sounds like an episode of "Fear Factor" to me. Yes that's all very horrible terrible stuff there. Especially if you were thrown in an alley, but if you show up for it that's another matter. I never had any pig testicles shoved down my throat, and my hair was too short to rip out. I guess I don't understand, because I'm missing 2 key items. I read the article anyway and I think you adding some things if not wup wup...
No, he's not "adding some things". That's actual stuff that happened, it's just not covered in the article. He's quoting.

How you cannot have sympathy for someone who's going trough all that is beyond me. And for the upteenth time, they never saw it coming for them. Next you'll be feeling no sympathy for them because they "should have known", right? I can so see that coming..

Quote:
There is no school mandate that states you have to go to a powder puff game and get hazed to be a senior.
There may, however, be mandates that say you have to go to powder puff games.

Quote:
There is a huge difference between showing up for work and getting killed, and showing up for a scheduled hazing event, and getting hazed.
For the sixth time, you can't choose to show up for something you don't even know about, can you? They never knew they were going to have to swallow pig testicles, thus, they cannot have chosen that.

They showed up for something and got something else.

And my argument does hold true: The people in 9/11 showed up for work expecting a fire risk, as there are fire risks in all buildings. The expected that there might be a fire that day, and they got a fire, didn't they? A rather big one that killed 2500 people and levelled the buildings, but hey, they expected a fire! Those 2500+ people chose to die. If they didn't want to be in a fire, they should have be in a fire-proof shelter!

Look, point is, nobody but you care if they are the same definition. They are completely.. as I proved above.

Quote:
I can tell none of you really seem to understand what hazing is. That's well and all, but like I said before. Don't expect me to change my point of view. The little event here while bad could have been much worse.
And you frankly don't seem to understand what really happened.

You're like "if it's hazing, it's okay, if it isn't, then screw it", right? Well, here are news for you: There's always something worse than what you're going trough. But you just cannot have that attitude.

I would pity someone whose wrist was broken, even though it's a light injury compared to breaking your arm, for example. Likewise, I pity the 9/11 victims, although the horrors of 9/11 were nothing compared to WW II.

And finally: It's impossible to "walk it off" when your foot breaks, so don't go there. Just because your sarge back then was a moron doesn't have to mean you have to be one here.

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Old 05-15-2003, 10:39 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Shock, you have to understand. If everyone acted rudely, noone would notice him. He just doesn't want the attention taken from him, that's all .
No it's just really arrogant of you to think you rate to make demands to me that's all.
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Here are some better analogies:
You work as a petsitter and advertise that you take care of cats, and you hear that you are to take care of a "slightly aggressive feline" for the weekend. You expect a cat, but instead, you get a tiger, and it eats half your foot. But sure, nobody should have sympathy for you because "she expected a feline, right"? Right, sure, duh. Except while they are both felines, cats and tigers are pretty different.
Well if you excepted to take care of it when it got there and you saw it was a tiger you have the choice to refuse to take it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Or a boat voulentarily going into a light breeze, expecting winds, and instead getting a hurricane and almost sinking. They're both winds, but two very different things. You could say you have no feelings for the crew of that ship for almost dying because "they expected the wind to be blowing".
If you are a true sailor you understand the weather and you also know the risks involved every time you sail out. Anyone that sails knows the weather can change very rapidly. So both your analogies are pore examples.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
No, he's not "adding some things". That's actual stuff that happened, it's just not covered in the article. He's quoting.
Like I said "wup wup".
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
How you cannot have sympathy for someone who's going trough all that is beyond me.
Basically because I have been threw similar if not worse things so it really doesn't register to me especially if they didn't have to.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
There may, however, be mandates that say you have to go to powder puff games.
Powder puff games are as required as attending Prom or Graduation you don't have to do any of them. I went the day after graduation and picked up my diploma. I would think that would be more important than a powder puff game or whatever. If it's required care to show me proof?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
For the sixth time, you can't choose to show up for something you don't even know about, can you? They never knew they were going to have to swallow pig testicles, thus, they cannot have chosen that.

They showed up for something and got something else.
Well they should have left, ran away, or whatever they felt they had to do if they didn't want to participate.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And my argument does hold true: The people in 9/11 showed up for work expecting a fire risk, as there are fire risks in all buildings. The expected that there might be a fire that day, and they got a fire, didn't they? A rather big one that killed 2500 people and levelled the buildings, but hey, they expected a fire! Those 2500+ people chose to die. If they didn't want to be in a fire, they should have be in a fire-proof shelter!
Again a pore and unrelated example vastly inaccurate.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Look, point is, nobody but you care if they are the same definition. They are completely.. as I proved above.
What have you proved except you have a opinion?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And you frankly don't seem to understand what really happened.
I understand what hazing is. Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt have you?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And finally: It's impossible to "walk it off" when your foot breaks, so don't go there. Just because your sarge back then was a moron doesn't have to mean you have to be one here.
Well I walked it off for a good week. I ran on it all week. I took a P.T. test and passed. It's all in the head. I did what I needed to do. I didn't go to the hospital tell I was in agonizing pain every time I stepped. I did my job and that's what matters. I know a guy that went threw 40 hours of field training with a cracked vertebra in his neck. Have you ever had to perform under real pain?


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Old 05-15-2003, 11:03 PM   #33
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Well they should have left, ran away, or whatever they felt they had to do if they didn't want to participate.
So when they realized that they were really in for (eating feces, etc.) they had a choice to leave, but didn't? So those girls who were forced to eat testicles could have said "okay, enough, let me go", and they would have been released and allowed to go home? Interesting. You simply have to show me where you found that, because the article says they were forced to do it, and didn't realize what they were in for until it was too late ...Or are you just throwing around assumptions and guesses?

Quote:
Well if you excepted to take care of it when it got there and you saw it was a tiger you have the choice to refuse to take it.
Not if it's too late to refuse to accept it by the time you see it's a tiger. What if it's uncaged on you just as you open the door, before you can say a word?

Quote:
What have you proved except you have a opinion?
That light breezes and hurricanes are vastly different are, I'm afraid, estibilished fact.

And well, I've been on a boat. Countless times. Kept a personal log, learned how to handle MOB situations and actually handled one, and learned how to tell True North from looking at the sun. Here are two facts:

1. Hurricanes and storms can come out of nowhere. There can be a light breeze and perfectly clear weather one minute and only four hours later, it's a full-fledged hurricane like the one that ripped the roof of that barn at home and killed this kid by throwing a swing-set in his head.

2. You can be far away from port when you realize the weather is going to get windy. Did you ever see the perfect storm? If you had sympathy for the brave sailors aboard Andrea Gail, why don't you have sympathy for these girls?

3. You can be at sea and not be, as you quote, a "true sailor". What if you don't know there might be a hurricane and that weather changes so fast? What then?

Point is, those girls didn't know what they were walking into. How could they choose to do something in advance that they didn't know about? If they knew the hazing would be that bad, they wouldn't have gone.

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Old 05-15-2003, 11:27 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
So when they realized that they were really in for (eating feces, etc.) they had a choice to leave, but didn't? So those girls who were forced to eat testicles could have said "okay, enough, let me go", and they would have been released and allowed to go home? Interesting. You simply have to show me where you found that, because the article says they were forced to do it, and didn't realize what they were in for until it was too late ...Or are you just throwing around assumptions and guesses?
Hmm OH WELL ! as for throwing around assumptions and guesses you do that a lot why does it matter if I do it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Not if it's too late to refuse to accept it by the time you see it's a tiger. What if it's uncaged on you just as you open the door, before you can say a word?
Than someone broke the law on handling dangerous animals. There are certain requirements in the handling and transporting of such animals. The person excepting to take care of one should have been more careful on who they except animals from.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
That light breezes and hurricanes are vastly different are, I'm afraid, estibilished fact.

And well, I've been on a boat. Countless times. Kept a personal log, learned how to handle MOB situations and actually handled one, and learned how to tell True North from looking at the sun. Here are two facts:

1. Hurricanes and storms can come out of nowhere. There can be a light breeze and perfectly clear weather one minute and only four hours later, it's a full-fledged hurricane like the one that ripped the roof of that barn at home and killed this kid by throwing a swing-set in his head.
Hmm ok so your point is?
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
2. You can be far away from port when you realize the weather is going to get windy. Did you ever see the perfect storm? If you had sympathy for the brave sailors aboard Andrea Gail, why don't you have sympathy for these girls?
I don't have sympathy for people dyeing while doing something they choose to do. Maybe honer them, but that is all. If I choose to become a cop and I get killed in the line of duty while doing a job I knew the risks off. Why should anyone have sympathy? I'm not much for sympathy I don't want it and I don't give it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
3. You can be at sea and not be, as you quote, a "true sailor". What if you don't know there might be a hurricane and that weather changes so fast? What then?
Than you shouldn't be out there, because you're incompetent.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Point is, those girls didn't know what they were walking into. How could they choose to do something in advance that they didn't know about? If they knew the hazing would be that bad, they wouldn't have gone.
The point to me is they went to get hazed and they learned what hazing is.


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Old 05-15-2003, 11:44 PM   #35
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Hmm OH WELL ! as for throwing around assumptions and guesses you do that a lot why does it matter if I do it.
I'm glad you care about what you type.

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Than someone broke the law on handling dangerous animals. There are certain requirements in the handling and transporting of such animals. The person excepting to take care of one should have been more careful on who they except animals from.
May I remind you that several laws were also broken during this hazing.

Okay, to restate my point (again):
Yes, you should have been more careful, maybe, but the thing is, what are the odds that someone would give you a tiger anyway? If this tiger does kill you, I'd have sympathy for you. Why? Because you didn't know. You were innocent, simple as that. You didn't choose the tiger.

To those girls, odds were slim that something like that would happen, because they didn't know about it in the first place. And they learned next to nothing about college hazings, as 99% of those hazings are innocent.

You know what, it's so obvious that you don't care less, so I won't bother discussing this more with you. That doesn't have to mean I admit I'm wrong, before you start ranting about that. If we could have had a serious discussion, I'd have been glad to. But sadly, you don't seem to be able to do that.

Farewell.

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Old 05-16-2003, 12:32 AM   #36
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
To those girls, odds were slim that something like that would happen, because they didn't know about it in the first place. And they learned next to nothing about college hazings, as 99% of those hazings are innocent.
It was a high school girl's football game. Get your facts straight if your going to argue. Real hazing isn't pleasant, isn't fun, and isn't innocent anything that is isn't hazing.
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Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
You know what, it's so obvious that you don't care less, so I won't bother discussing this more with you. That doesn't have to mean I admit I'm wrong, before you start ranting about that. If we could have had a serious discussion, I'd have been glad to. But sadly, you don't seem to be able to do that.

Farewell.
There has been no serious discussing of the thread for several posts now. I stated my opinion a long time ago. That is how I felt about it then and that's how I feel about it know. All anyone has done is make the same arguments over and over with no real purpose. My opinion in this matter isn't really up for debate.

I said it was wrong already once, and that it should be prevented more in the future. There isn't much more I can give on this. That's just the way it is.

As for you giveing up.


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Old 05-16-2003, 03:57 AM   #37
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No one here is condoning hazing. It is bad in all its forms. Probaly illegal in almost all it's forms as well.

With that said, the best excuse these girls could have is that they have no idea, no clue as to what the word "hazing" means. Because they knew they were going to a hazing event, so they must have not known what that word meant. If I held an annual gunshot wound event for all would be seniors, and for the two previous years I just threw paint at them, but this year I gave them all gunshot wounds, could they really say they thought that they were only gonna get a mild gunshot wound?

Any time that I may have been hazed I was scared. Because I know that there have been times during hazings when other people have died. I know hazings are a bad thing, and in know way condone them, or ever voluntarily participated in them. You want to know why hazings are a bad thing? Because not only do they serve no purpose at all, except to humiliate and cause physical harm, they can escalate into very bad things. As we see here. So, everyone who participated in this event is to blame, and all participation was entirely voluntary. Everyone who showed up was continuing an annual hazing event that should never had started in the first place. Those girls who recieved the hazings are not to blame for the bad things that happened to them, but they are to blame for voluntarily participating in a hazing. Not only is that one of the most stupidest things you can do of your own free will, they are encouraging those events by participating.

I don't have compassion for everyone on this planet, I am not mother theressa. These girls chose to go to a bad thing, to participate in the hazing. It was bad for them. That's what a hazing is. I would have gladly ate pig balls, or had crap thrown on me, instead of recieving some of the worst beatings of my life. They did get a mild hazing.
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Old 05-16-2003, 10:20 AM   #38
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Mild hazing?

I don't know, but one girl had to get sewn back together with 10 stitches. It's easy to say those girls were gullible, but I doubt they knew what they were going into. They probably expected to be teased a bit, and had no idea how horrible this hazing would be.

They were naive, gullible high school teenage girls, but at least now they know what a real hazing is like. They were just kids, after all.

But what irks me is that the public gets all furious from this incident. No doubt Munik and Jack has seen hazings far worse than this, but as the media placed this story in the spotlight, they're willfully ignoring all the hazings taking place elsewhere, which makes this one pale in comparison. It's like they're feeding the public a mere snippet of reality, and when this matter has been dealt with, we can just close the book and pretend everything's alright again.

But it wont change. If parents knew what hazings their innocent little sons had to go through later in their life, there'd be an even bigger outcry.

Some of you may already know by now that the parents of the kids doing the HAZING are suing against getting them expelled. While it isn't the school's business as it didn't take place during school time or on school ground, I can easily understand why they did it. I wouldn't like to have such idiots running around in my school either.

EDIT: and if I see any more personal attacks, I'll delete the post, regardless of who started it. Stop it, now.


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Old 05-16-2003, 10:21 AM   #39
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What "munik" said is pretty much along the lines of how I feel.

I really hate to pigy back on what "munik" said, but he said it alot better than I did.


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Old 05-16-2003, 10:32 AM   #40
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I think those girls who did the hazing...should be banned from school activities. Those school activities...such as prom...graduation ceremonies are considered a reward/privledge. I do not think that girls that forced other girls to eat feces should be rewarded! However, the school had ways of finding out that there was this game that was going to be held. Does anyone know if the school warned against participating in this game and if they said they would expel those that participated?
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